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***The DigitalFoundry Face Off Thread***

I'm pretty much done with pc gaming now as well to be honest, this last year has left a nasty taste in my mouth. Pc gaming now is stupidly expensive, most games are arriving in buggy state, very poor multi gpu support and the difference in visuals now is really not worth it.

Unlike you though nexus mate, PS4 pro isn't good enough, save your money and get a Scorpio in a year.

Pretty much agreed mate but i am going to do one last build and see how it all turns out with dx12. I might get a scorpio as i don't think Pro will be worth it for the amount i game these days. The Scorpio should be more powerful than my current PC so might be worth it.
 
It hasn't helped buying into Freesync and being stuck with nowhere to go this last year and a half or so. Everything AMD does has been so underwhelming, I'm hugely concerned Vega will just be another huge flop. I'm just not prepared to pay these ridiculous prices for high end tier cards anymore. A Scorpio and a nice LG HDR OLED screen in a year or so is where I'm going I think. I'm just not excited with how games are being released on pc these days. Bad port after bad port unless you can brute force it with a 700 quid GPU.
 
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It hasn't helped buying into Freesync and being stuck with nowhere to go this last year and a half or so. Everything AMD does has been so underwhelming, I'm hugely concerned Vega will just be another huge flop. I'm just not prepared to pay these ridiculous prices for high end tier cards anymore. A Scorpio and a nice LG HDR OLED screen in a year or so is where I'm going I think. I'm just not excited with how games are being released on pc these days. Bad port after bad port unless you can brute force it with a 700 quid GPU.

I prefer Sony's Ps only games as i think they show huge amounts of thought. I feel like i am playing a blockbuster movie when i play them. It seems ages since i had my Xbox360 which i did like but i never got that feeling from Microsoft. Still if Scorpio delivers i might get it. I do see Vega producing as AMD are taking there time about it. Vega and Freesync for one last chance and then who knows. Amd have definitely underwhelmed though but isn't it funny that you will most likely be buying into an amd powered Scorpio. Gaming as a whole needs a big kick in the arse.
 
Pc gaming now is stupidly expensive,

Has never been cheaper, actually.

most games are arriving in buggy state,
Not true at all.

very poor multi gpu support and
Has always been the case, but is actually better today than ever before. Guess the state of xfire before XDMA and after.

the difference in visuals now is really not worth it.
Subjective, and I disagree.

Unlike you though nexus mate, PS4 pro isn't good enough, save your money and get a Scorpio in a year.
You're damn right about that though, anyone trying to go from PC to console because of performance would be thoroughly self-deluding himself as consoles now are no more than low-spec PCs and don't even have that many exclusives anymore either. In short, even fewer reasons to go console-only today than ever before.


A lot of people crying about this but the truth is they just aren't all that into games anymore, and that's okay, but have some self-awareness at least.
 
What i never knew about this!!

How is aiming with a mouse??

It basically plugs into your console and you then plug in your mouse and keyboard. It's a 1 to 1 connection which basically means no lag. In cod and battlefront it felt like pc. You basically load up profiles to suit and get on with the ownage. Sure not all games will suit but if it's normal fps it's really good. I have yet to come across an fps which does not suit it. My mate played Destiny but because of weird mechanics it needed work but he still said it was better by far compared to pad.
 
It basically plugs into your console and you then plug in your mouse and keyboard. It's a 1 to 1 connection which basically means no lag. In cod and battlefront it felt like pc. You basically load up profiles to suit and get on with the ownage. Sure not all games will suit but if it's normal fps it's really good. I have yet to come across an fps which does not suit it. My mate played Destiny but because of weird mechanics it needed work but he still said it was better by far compared to pad.

Nice, cheers mate! Iv'e just been looking at it xim4 or something. Seen some vids and it looks great! Want to buy it now haha. But it seems pricey at a 3 digit pound number. (not sure if i can post prices etc)

Going to give it some thought as this could potentially get my back to playing console a bit more. :eek:
 
Quantum Break

Frame times between DX12 and DX11.

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https://www.computerbase.de/2016-09/quantum-break-steam-benchmark/
 
Nice, cheers mate! Iv'e just been looking at it xim4 or something. Seen some vids and it looks great! Want to buy it now haha. But it seems pricey at a 3 digit pound number. (not sure if i can post prices etc)

Going to give it some thought as this could potentially get my back to playing console a bit more. :eek:

If you play enough its a good purchase. It was worth the money just for fun to me lol but i will get my money's worth playing Bf1 and the next Cod v my mates as most are console gamers. Just over £100 is priceless when not having to deal with a pad in FPS.
 
Controllers don't bother me too much tbh, I use them in every game I play on my PC except for any FPS games, chances are even when I do get a console, I will still stick to PC for the FPS MP games like BF.

Unlike you though nexus mate, PS4 pro isn't good enough, save your money and get a Scorpio in a year.

Yup I would much prefer the scorpio but the ps just has too many good exclusives, at least for me:


Spiderman alone is a big YES! :D

Suppose I could always just pick up a cheap second hand ps 4 for those exclusives instead...

It hasn't helped buying into Freesync and being stuck with nowhere to go this last year and a half or so. Everything AMD does has been so underwhelming, I'm hugely concerned Vega will just be another huge flop. I'm just not prepared to pay these ridiculous prices for high end tier cards anymore. A Scorpio and a nice LG HDR OLED screen in a year or so is where I'm going I think. I'm just not excited with how games are being released on pc these days. Bad port after bad port unless you can brute force it with a 700 quid GPU.

Yeah that is why I refuse to jump on the free/g sync bandwagon, just another example of how PC gaming is becoming a joke now ad the monitor prices lol... Manufacturers must be laughing all the way to the bank with how much they are milking LCD now. Give me a £2500 4k HDR 55"+ OLED TV over a "high end" £800+ LCD monitor any day of the week.

Has never been cheaper, actually.

It is actually at its worst now thanks to brexit and the pound value dropping...

Not true at all.

Of the top of my head, the most recent games that have arrived in an unsatisfactory state either being broken or performing awfully:

- deux ex mankind
- no mans sky
- batman arkham knight, the PC version was even missing graphical effects that the console had lol...
- fallout 4 (couldn't even get the screen res. option in the menu to work for release day lol...)
- assassins creed syndicate + unity
- the witcher 3 (got it working satisfactorily myself in the end)
- rise of the tomb raider (the worst game I have played in a long time, crash galore and the performance urgh, was even worse than batman AK for me)
- watch dogs
- COD, iirc advanced warfare was the one I had the most issues with
- Battlefield 3 + 4 on launch
- forza horizon 3
- quantum leap
- gears of war
- diablo 3

In fact, it will be easier for me to list games that ran more or less bug free on release/first week for the majority of people; mad max, doom, battlefront, hardline + alien isolation


Has always been the case, but is actually better today than ever before. Guess the state of xfire before XDMA and after.

Not used crossfire myself but I know Tony has been since the 7950s came out and he has posted many times about how crossfire was beastly back then and how it has gone to **** since the omega driver started rolling out and with new apis like dx 12 where it is upon the developers to implement the support and by the looks of it, there isn't going to be any support

You're damn right about that though, anyone trying to go from PC to console because of performance would be thoroughly self-deluding himself as consoles now are no more than low-spec PCs and don't even have that many exclusives anymore either. In short, even fewer reasons to go console-only today than ever before.

See video above

They may be low spec but as has been shown in a few videos comparing graphics between PC and xbox/ps, the difference is no longer as big as what it use to be and yes the performance might not be as good (after spending 15-30 minutes fixing/setting the PC version up) but generally I have found xbox and more so the PS 4 to feel pretty smooth in games, thanks to its own vsync method being used (and of course developers spending more time optimising the console version) and with more powerful consoles + freesync coming to consoles & TVs in the future, this area will only get better

A lot of people crying about this but the truth is they just aren't all that into games anymore, and that's okay, but have some self-awareness at least.

Yes I am not into games anywhere as much these days largely because there is little that appeals to me now but also largely thanks to the way PC in general is going these days. PS has a lot of exclusives that really interest me and I know will be better than 90% of the games out there available for all platforms at least for myself

Said it time and time again. Mantle, Vulkan and DX12 all feel so much more smoother even when the frame rate is the same vs DX11

Yup likewise, they really are superb APIs and are my last hope for PC gaming now.
 
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You're damn right about that though, anyone trying to go from PC to console because of performance would be thoroughly self-deluding himself as consoles now are no more than low-spec PCs and don't even have that many exclusives anymore either. In short, even fewer reasons to go console-only today than ever before.


A lot of people crying about this but the truth is they just aren't all that into games anymore, and that's okay, but have some self-awareness at least.

I think the Playstation has enough exclusives to justify getting a Pro to run 1080p with playable framerates. Scorpio no but that's due to the expected higher price and how so many X box games are now coming to the PC.

I'll always have a gaming PC I just want to try a lot of the games I've missed on the PS as well as the upcoming ones.

Tesco has a 1tb Pro on pre-order for 350 quid which seems pretty fair to me.
 
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It is actually at its worst now thanks to brexit and the pound value dropping...

I'm talking about a longer time-span than a year here. Do you know how much it would cost to make a PC to run 1080p brilliantly? Very little, because there's a lot of good second hand deals to be had or the end-of-life clearance sales where you can get cards like a 980ti for £300 which was the top-dog just a few months before. But you don't even need that, even a 970 would do, and they've been going for £150. Never mind that CPUs have largely stagnated in their progress which means your CPU will last longer performance-wise, which in turn just makes it cheaper to have a good PC. And there's plenty of other ways in which it is cheaper but anyone that thinks it's more expensive now than 5 years ago even, simply hasn't done the math or paid any attention.



Of the top of my head, the most recent games that have arrived in an unsatisfactory state either being broken or performing awfully:

I like how you managed to get a handful of games from different years and some with only very little issues or only issues for the first few days of release, and make it seem like PC gaming is in such a poor state, when all these games except one are console-first titles anyway and played no better on consoles than they did on PC.

- deux ex mankind
DX:MD works fine if you don't push every slider to the max for no reason, and in fact there's little visual loss if you do so. And no, bug-wise it's running fine as there are no game-breaking bugs nor significant ones in any way.


- no mans sky

- batman arkham knight, the PC version was even missing graphical effects that the console had lol...
Doesn't matter, still had more graphical options overall.

- fallout 4 (couldn't even get the screen res. option in the menu to work for release day lol...)
C'mon, you're complaining about something lasting a day? Kinda taking the **** here.


- assassins creed syndicate + unity
Poor performance yes, but not unplayable. Still ran as good as consoles though.


- the witcher 3 (got it working satisfactorily myself in the end)
Witcher 3 has been superb since release I'm shocked that you would even mention it.

- rise of the tomb raider (the worst game I have played in a long time, crash galore and the performance urgh, was even worse than batman AK for me)
Must be something on your end as it hasn't been occurring for other people.

- watch dogs
- COD, iirc advanced warfare was the one I had the most issues with
COD is absolutely not a game that performs bad or has significant bugs.

- Battlefield 3 + 4 on launch
Again, absolutely fantastic games in terms of performance & playability.

- forza horizon 3
- quantum leap
- gears of war
- diablo 3
Diablo 3???? Are you serious? It's one of the most bug-free releases in history, the only thing you could complain about was too many people trying to play it the first week so the launch night meant you couldn't really play - but that's something that would happen to ANY game EVER just because of the launch's scale.



Not used crossfire myself but I know Tony has been since the 7950s came out and he has posted many times about how crossfire was beastly back then and how it has gone to **** since the omega driver started rolling out and with new apis like dx 12 where it is upon the developers to implement the support and by the looks of it, there isn't going to be any support

Absolutely no one with any sort of technical knowledge could say something like crossfire before XDMA was better than crossfire with XDMA. That's like arguing about whether 1+1=2 or not.


They may be low spec but as has been shown in a few videos comparing graphics between PC and xbox/ps, the difference is no longer as big as what it use to be and yes the performance might not be as good (after spending 15-30 minutes fixing/setting the PC version up) but generally I have found xbox and more so the PS 4 to feel pretty smooth in games, thanks to its own vsync method being used (and of course developers spending more time optimising the console version) and with more powerful consoles + freesync coming to consoles & TVs in the future, this area will only get better

The visual difference is still significant, because a lot of console games are still in the "low settings" category, but more importantly if you look at these comparison videos you will see that even these "optimized" console experiences have FPS drops and not always keep consistent 30 fps. Not to mention... 30 fps is kinda lame in the first place. But the thing is, if we're gonna talk about smoothness, if the experience isn't like that on console - you can't do squat about it, but if you're on PC then you can always upgrade something here or there, or tweak a setting. So I'll have to completely disagree with you on smoothness, because it's just not true and that's something I had to learn the hard way unfortunately.
 
The visual difference is still significant, because a lot of console games are still in the "low settings" category, but more importantly if you look at these comparison videos you will see that even these "optimized" console experiences have FPS drops and not always keep consistent 30 fps. Not to mention... 30 fps is kinda lame in the first place. But the thing is, if we're gonna talk about smoothness, if the experience isn't like that on console - you can't do squat about it, but if you're on PC then you can always upgrade something here or there, or tweak a setting. So I'll have to completely disagree with you on smoothness, because it's just not true and that's something I had to learn the hard way unfortunately.

The visual settings for Ps4 are usually the PC high settings. I am not sure where you are getting this low settings. Find me a game or article where it's stated the PS4 is running low settings. Here is a comparison of the BF1 beta where Ps4 is targeting a 60fps frame rate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TlCWCRoS10

No where near low settings. Ps4 pro with around double the graphics power should be able to push ultra settings. For how weak the hardware inside the Ps4 is i think it does a really good job.
 
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Ok so for a good 1080P PC gaming machine capable of achieving 60 fps and being able to use moderate to high settings, which is future proofed for at least 2-3 years, you need to spend:

  • £200-300 for a GPU
  • £200-300 for a good CPU, mobo and RAM setup

Then you need to add on the

  • PSU (£50-100)
  • case (£30-100)
  • KB + M (£50-150)
  • hard drive/SSD (£30-100)
  • speakers/headphones (£20-100)

Could use a TV or if you want a monitor then that is another £100-1000

vs

£350 PS 4 pro (I presume most people would have a TV already, if not then you can get one anywhere from £300-3000)

Doesn't seem like great value to me for barely any better graphics nor much better performance.



Go google some of those games especially;

- battlefield 3 and more so 4, the game was riddled with bugs/issues for the first 6 months, it was so bad that you even had battlefield youtubers such as anderzel stop playing the game completely despite originally loving the beta/alpha and closed events they attended, I'm sure consoles were affected too but iirc, PC had the worst of the problems, games are great now, just a shame it took them 6 months to get it to that state...

- batman - it had more graphical options overall but it was missing ambient occlusion, rain particles and something else, which I can't recall of atm thus the game actually looked worse than consoles since the game heavily relied upon those effects (video on youtube comparing this), either way, it didn't matter as the vast majority of people couldn't even play the game on the PC at all due to the constant crashes + awful performance

- fallout 4 - yes, not even having a basic option that has worked in pretty much every single game is an absolute joke and this was just one minor bug in comparison to other serious game breaking bugs

- rise of the tomb raider, majority seemed to have it working well but there were a lot of people having issues with performance and crashes even after the first 2-3 patches, I posted links to those threads in the ROTTR threads on here, just one of my posts with some links, I have at least another 3-4 posts somewhere on here with 5 different links in each post showing the same issues I had:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=29171543&postcount=1008

- COD - until advanced warfare came... no idea about the ones after that as they haven't appealed at all and advanced warfare released in the way it was more or less put the final nail in the coffin for those games

- the witcher 3 wasn't as bad as all the others but still bad enough where I and others had to go manually tweaking files/settings to stop crashes and get proper performance:

http://www.pcgamer.com/the-witcher-3-performance-tips-and-crash-advice/

As well as switching to borderless windowed mode, I had to lock FPS to 59

- deux ex... that is not what I have seen being reported by youtubers and people on here, regardless of settings, people still mention fps drops regardless of settings


Also, for what it is worth, I don't put much stock into what people with free/g sync screens say when it comes to performance as that tech just hides/minimises any performance issues, something which was never needed before and still isn't if the developer takes the time to optimise the game properly i.e. doom, mad max, alien isolation.


As for crossfire, go tell that to the many disgruntled crossfire users in the AMD driver thread...


Of course 30 fps isn't ideal but "smoothness" has a lot more to do with frame latency than average/max FPS (of course, both are somewhat tied together but you can achieve a good frame latency thus smoothness via other means as has been shown with dx 12, vulkan and mantle) and yes for some titles, the consoles, more so the xbox drop below the 30/60 fps lock but it is no worse than PC games where the FPS fluctuates a lot more often and with bigger dips of which are a lot more noticeable if you haven't got a g/free sync screen.


As therealdeal has posted, you can see for yourself, consoles are nowhere near low settings.
 
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Lets not forget the cost for each console game is much higher plus the cost to use the online service.

In the end that low cost on the console soon jumps up to match a decent gaming rig. Plus when you buy a gaming pc it's not only a gaming pc it can be used for so much more.

Anyway I think this thread is going alittle OT now guys :D
 
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