Manchester Bombing *** Please remain respectful and refrain from antagonising posts ***

Just woke up to this. Man, the victims will be innocent kids out on a night out.

Kinda took the edge off going on holiday and having to tell the news to the kids. :(

That's who I fear for. The school kids of today. Do we ignore this and carry on and don't let the terrorists win? Or do we stay where we know it's safe?
 
How tragic :( I bet the majority of the victims are children too.


I can't believe some of the comments here already though.
 
who is they?

some of the recent European attacks have come from European citizens

Unfortunately when it's framed a war against Islam some nutters that aren't associated with the warzone but "follow" that religion decide they want to join the "war".

ISIS are trying to frame it as such and many in the west are happy to oblige for "our" side.

It's obviously not a war against Islam and most people understand that, but that doesn't stop the idiots on both sides. At least the likes of Trump et al. have toned their rhetoric down a little recently.
 
Increasingly easy global movement of people - none of this is particularly new or entirely down to the West's more recent foreign policy. It is a far more complex story going back far longer than the last 2-3 decades.

I actually find it kind of vile how a small number try to pin it exclusively on more recent events.


There isn't a recent west world foreign policy, the west has been doing the same stuff in the east for the past 50-60 years. It's mostly about profit, the same with the drug war, the military industrial complex has been causing conflict around the world since not long after the end of WW2. Military production made some incredibly rich people/companies which gave them a lot of power during WW2 in America, then the war stopped, the profits came in but they were effectively time limited and not increasing. They wanted more conflict so they pushed for conflict and war wherever they could find it. Vietnam... "the commies are trying to take over the world"... except they weren't. Draft people in, use lots of military equipment, funnel billions and billions of tax revenue into military companies.

They've been meddling in the east this whole time, from establishing Israel which was a guaranteed problem for the foreseeable future, to training groups of fighters to fight back against Russia, to using Iran to start a conflict with Iraq, to dumping Iran and backing Iraq when their interference in Iran helped inspire an uprising to their 'friendly' government in Iran which was hijacked by the religious groups who hated the modern/liberal push the country had taken who took an anti west involvement stance when they seized power. Then Iraq was backed, etc, etc. This has been going on for generations.

We (the 'west' in general but the USA/UK being the most involved really) have been incubating hate, ignorance and holding back the middle east for several generations to the point where everyone over there has lived under the threat of war or conflicts and usually the consequences, injury, dead family members, kids called in collateral damage.

This isn't recent, it's not close to recent. Look at how Iran was before the uprising, it was pretty liberal and moving forward, education was pushed and people were moving away from religion as the West did so with more education. The majority of the middle east would have continued to develop and move forwards, more educated, less religious and less extremist without being constantly knocked down with infrastructure destroyed in needless conflict. There is no profit (for these specific companies and people with monumental influence and power) in peace, so they've been making sure for decades that there will be continued conflict and terrorist attacks just generates more excuses to go back and bomb them again, creating the next generation of terrorists when the reactionary bombing kills another parent, sibling or child.


Terrorism is vile, targeting a concert that would have a younger audience is despicable, but you have to realise that people profit from this, those people have been meddling over their on purpose for a very very very long time and you can't cause conflict across an entire region for 60+ years and expect not to create a monumental amount of hatred from those people.
 
The UK needs its own Guantanamo. Round up every single person that has been flagged on MI5 systems with links to extremism and subject them to some intense questioning indefinitely. I guarantee this attacker is probably on some sort of watch list, but of course never quite watched closely enough...

Oh god, not this again.

Let's ignore 1000 years of British history and culture by throwing our law and judicial system out the window and indefinitely detain/jail peopl wothout sufficient evidence or a trial?

The problem is just because you're on a watch list doesn't mean there's any/sufficient evidence against you to try and convict. For many it may well be akin to being arrested for thought crime, and many more it may just be being associated with someone.

Let's not throw away so much of what makes us British because of a few *****, just as we tried not to do with the IRA. Let's also try and not repeat the same mistakes we made in Ireland.
 
There isn't a recent west world foreign policy, the west has been doing the same stuff in the east for the past 50-60 years. It's mostly about profit, the same with the drug war, the military industrial complex has been causing conflict around the world since not long after the end of WW2. Military production made some incredibly rich people/companies which gave them a lot of power during WW2 in America, then the war stopped, the profits came in but they were effectively time limited and not increasing. They wanted more conflict so they pushed for conflict and war wherever they could find it. Vietnam... "the commies are trying to take over the world"... except they weren't. Draft people in, use lots of military equipment, funnel billions and billions of tax revenue into military companies.

They've been meddling in the east this whole time, from establishing Israel which was a guaranteed problem for the foreseeable future, to training groups of fighters to fight back against Russia, to using Iran to start a conflict with Iraq, to dumping Iran and backing Iraq when their interference in Iran helped inspire an uprising to their 'friendly' government in Iran which was hijacked by the religious groups who hated the modern/liberal push the country had taken who took an anti west involvement stance when they seized power. Then Iraq was backed, etc, etc. This has been going on for generations.

We (the 'west' in general but the USA/UK being the most involved really) have been incubating hate, ignorance and holding back the middle east for several generations to the point where everyone over there has lived under the threat of war or conflicts and usually the consequences, injury, dead family members, kids called in collateral damage.

This isn't recent, it's not close to recent. Look at how Iran was before the uprising, it was pretty liberal and moving forward, education was pushed and people were moving away from religion as the West did so with more education. The majority of the middle east would have continued to develop and move forwards, more educated, less religious and less extremist without being constantly knocked down with infrastructure destroyed in needless conflict. There is no profit (for these specific companies and people with monumental influence and power) in peace, so they've been making sure for decades that there will be continued conflict and terrorist attacks just generates more excuses to go back and bomb them again, creating the next generation of terrorists when the reactionary bombing kills another parent, sibling or child.


Terrorism is vile, targeting a concert that would have a younger audience is despicable, but you have to realise that people profit from this, those people have been meddling over their on purpose for a very very very long time and you can't cause conflict across an entire region for 60+ years and expect not to create a monumental amount of hatred from those people.

If withdrew and left them alone they would still hate us and attack us.
 
President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-god-told-me-to-invade-iraq-6262644.html?amp

Yes, it may be false, but I don't believe there's ever been an official denial either. Considering how devout he was/is it's not a great leap of "faith" to think he may well have actually said this.
 
Not the news I wanted hear waking up this morning, shocking.

RIP to those who lost their lives.
 
If withdrew and left them alone they would still hate us and attack us.

Perhaps because they will still believe that their culture is being diluted and the only way they can protect it is to fight everything the west stands for.

There is little difference in the ideology behind the likes of ISIS and the most ardent nationalists in the west, the major difference being those nationalists complaining about their culture being damaged by immigrants and foreigners are generally less likely to resort to violence - perhaps because they were brought up in a much more stable area of the world and not subjected to/desensitized to violence as people living in war zones.
 
So sad.

Something definitely needs to be done about xenophobic violence perpetrated by right-wing extremists.
 
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