Dashcam footage. Who was at fault?

Soldato
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"here lie the remains of jimmy mcveigh, who died defending his right of way
he was right, dead right, as he drove along
But he's just as dead, as if he'd been wrong"

What possibly could the driver have done to prevent this may i ask?
 
Soldato
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Its been stated many times, don't cross traffic where you can't see its clear.

I don't think anyone would disagree here that 999/1000 times this move would be fine and everyone here would have done the same thing.

Doesn't mean its not your fault the one time it goes wrong...
 
Soldato
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Ok, and someone further down the line on the other side also does this, for safetys sake, at which point we have a scenario which we technically call grid lock...

Theres only one high sided mini bus in a queue of cars. You only have to wait until the bus passes.

Lets worry about the doomsday scenario when it happens.

Now then, how was the cyclist completely without blame in this scenario?

Why do you think the cyclist was blameless? I don't think anyone else will agree with you.
 
Soldato
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Theres only one high sided mini bus in a queue of cars. You only have to wait until the bus passes.

Lets worry about the doomsday scenario when it happens.



Why do you think the cyclist was blameless? I don't think anyone else will agree with you.

Plenty of places where people turning right when flashed is the only way to prevent gridlock, hell my daily commute is like this, only takes 2 popular right turns in either direction and its only people doing this exact maneuvre that prevents gridlock.

As for the cyclist being blameless seems to be the core belief of a few posters in this thread.
 
Soldato
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Good luck in court then if you are in habit of driving blindly where you can't see.

The one thing that doesn't prevent grid lock is a car.
 
Soldato
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This is a really tricky one. Without seeing what each person could see it's hard to put 100% blame on anyone.
  • The minibus is stopped part-way across the lane the car is turning in to, so from the cyclist's perspective it may have looked like the van was not in a position to give way to a turning car
  • The van shouldn't have flashed the driver across if the cyclist was visible in his mirrors, but it's impossible to tell if the minibus driver could have seen this
  • Legally I suspect the car shoulders a significant proportion of the blame here, but I'm not sure that 99.9% of other drivers would have done anything different to the car driver here
The cyclist can feel a little aggrieved about this I think, but at the same time has to take it easier when filtering. If the car had done the technically correct thing of creeping across until they had good visibility of filtering cyclists they would have probably still blocked the cyclist's path before they could see him, and then the only difference in outcome would have been that the cyclist would have hit the front of the car rather than the side.

When cycling I always hang back at junctions when filtering after being sideswiped by a left-turning, non-indicating car when I was filtering up on the left side of a long queue of mostly stationary traffic a number of years ago. In that situation the car turned without indicating or looking, but regardless of the rights/wrongs, it did more damage to me than the driver/car.
 
Soldato
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This is a really tricky one. Without seeing what each person could see it's hard to put 100% blame on anyone....

Don't see whats tricky about it. Two road users hit each other because they went blind across a junction.

If this had been a car and truck it would be ok for the truck to do it because, its ok for the Truck to drive blind into a junction because they are less likely to be injured.
 
Soldato
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Don't see whats tricky about it. Two road users hit each other because they went blind across a junction.

If this had been a car and truck it would be ok for the truck to do it because, its ok for the Truck to drive blind into a junction because they are less likely to be injured.

thats not quite what people are saying - its just that given the circumstances the driver did what most drivers probably would do - knowing that, it makes it really stupid and obvious that the cyclist was going to end up getting hurt if that is how he rides in general - thats not totally saying the driver was completely in the right but it does make what the cyclist did monumentally idiotic, unless life changing injuries or death are what you are aiming for every time you go out on your bike

its not about who is right or wrong, its about staying alive in a situation that is very predictably going to end up with someone getting hurt, of the two vehicles involved, the one in control of the bike had the greater opportunity to prevent that accident from happening - I don't think it is at all realistic to expect the driver not to go when someone flashes them - regardless of what the rules say - it is just how the roads actually work - the biker knew they were there and seeing a junction could have predicted a hazard - it was far less likely that the driver would be able to predict the bicycle hurtling towards them at speed, short of just not moving at all, which might be the "correct" thing to do, but its not the realistic expectation

should drivers generally be more aware of the potential for bikes to be in unexpected places? probably yes
should bikers hurtle along the road ignoring potential hazards and risking their own life? well if it was me, definitely not, if other people want to splatter themselves up the side of large metallic objects then its probably darwin at work

the key word above being "unexpected", cyclists should avoid putting themselves in unexpected places, for their own safety, he was bombing along because he was presumably in some sort of rush, instead of taking basic precautions that would have slowed him down (although strangely enough he would have gotten where he was going quicker by actually going slower in the first place and not having to presumably be carted off in an ambulance)

both participants broke rules, only one of them could end up dead, so that does place the onus on the potentially dead one to prevent themselves from becoming dead, just from a basic logic point of view
 
Soldato
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....hence car drivers should be more careful than truck drivers.... if a truck crushes a car because it didn't look for a car, its the cars fault.....the truck doesn't really have to obey rules because they are unlikely to be injured.
 
Soldato
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....hence car drivers should be more careful than truck drivers.... if a truck crushes a car because it didn't look for a car, its the cars fault.....the truck doesn't really have to obey rules because they are unlikely to be injured.

No, thats not what anyone is saying. If neither driver broke the rules there wouldnt have been an accident. However of the two the car driver was performing a low risk maneuver (both in terms of how likely it was a bike was there as well as risk to themselves of injury). The cyclist was performing a high risk maneuver again on both counts. That makes the cyclist the stupider of the two, even if you want to apportion blame 50/50. That doesnt make the car or truck driver "right" but it does make them less dead.
 
Soldato
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So if there an accident between a car and truck the car is the stupider of the two.

If the truck of oblivious to where cars normally are on the road, then its ok to assume the car won't be there. Its a low risk based on lack of awareness of where cars are normally positioned. Also low risk because the truck is likely to be less damaged.
 
Soldato
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...your implying that cyclists shouldn't stay left...because no one expects them to be there....

.. also speeding passing schools is low risk because you're unlikely to get injured, or that anyone is likely to be in the road.
 
Soldato
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...your implying that cyclists shouldn't stay left...because no one expects them to be there....

.. also speeding passing schools is low risk because you're unlikely to get injured, or that anyone is likely to be in the road.

No. Strawman. I'm saying if he wants to be less dead or injured he should ride a bit slower near junctions when he cant see past stationary traffic.
 
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