Dashcam footage. Who was at fault?

Soldato
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im a cyclist

Cyclist is at fault because hes basically undertaking stationary traffic, he should either :

a) stop because the mini bus has stopped for a reason
b) overtake the stationary traffic on the outside

For the motorists here I should point out that there is always a debate amongst cyclists about overtaking on the inside or the outside. I think it depends on the situation. There are pros and cons to both.

For drivers it means they then have to watch for cyclists on both sides.
 
Man of Honour
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Cyclist for sure, just bombing across a road like that with no vision.

Yup, cyclist should have clocked the minibus stopping at a junction, why was it stopping? Only one reason it would be stopping, to give way to a car turning into that junction. Car driver had no way of seeing the cyclist due to the minibus in the way.
 
Soldato
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For the motorists here I should point out that there is always a debate amongst cyclists about overtaking on the inside or the outside. I think it depends on the situation. There are pros and cons to both.

For drivers it means they then have to watch for cyclists on both sides.
I think in general things would work better if there was one rule on what side cyclists should pass other vehicles. Having cyclists insert themselves in gaps on both sides when traffic is moving is not a great situation for the cyclists or the driver, and something that happens in central London with surprising regularity.
 
Soldato
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Still with the turning car.
Don't get me wrong chances are I would have probably made the same manoeuvre. But I would accept I ran the risk and I were to blame.

It was not clear and safe to make that turn.

Would that car have made that manoeuvre had the van and cars behind been flowing.
 
Soldato
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im a cyclist

Cyclist is at fault because hes basically undertaking stationary traffic, he should either :

a) stop because the mini bus has stopped for a reason
b) overtake the stationary traffic on the outside

or option c- at least just slow down so that he can stop in the distance he can see ahead.

no, ok put it this way, change the cyclist to a motorbike/car
whos at fault then ?

already beat you to that one ;)

it'd be interesting to hear a biker's thoughts on this scenario, although i suspect the answer will probably "no motorbike rider is that stupid"
 
Soldato
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So that means common sense does not apply? You have right of way on a pedestrian crossing, does that mean you can just step out in front of traffic without looking?
You should be able to.
"Right of way" doesn't mean you can be reckless and it doesn't mean the other guy automatically gets blamed in an accident either.
Reckless is subjective, the car driver was reckless in this case for assuming the way was free.

The right of way rules are pretty much the only rules that actually prevent accidents. Speed is irrelevant, it's only a factor in the result, if the right of way was respected, there'd be no accident.

The punishments/fines for ''right of way'' mistakes should be ten to 100 fold, these are the mistakes that cause accidents, not nonsense such a speed or ''undertaking'' or whatever other excuses people are naming here.

Learn to bloody know who goes first and look better on junctions or other places of conflict, THAT prevents accidents. none of this othe

r nonsense.
It's about time basic lessons on how to use the roads properly was mandatory for cyclists. As well as insurance.
That is honestly a dream world you live in, look abroad ffs, you don't see that kind of nonsense here, in DE, in BE, in DK, etc...

Hell, look in bloody Paris how motorbikes slalom at speed between traffic... Two wheelers DO NOT sit in traffic jams, expecting otherwise is a dream.
The context of the comment was about cars not cyclists.

Its called taking the primary position. It actually safer. Comes from experience. Many inexperienced cyclists are killed by staying left, when its not safe to do so.

The only issue is some cyclists abuse it by not moving left once the situation that requires primary position is passed.
Where do you get this stuff from, there is enough proof/are enough studies that as a vulnerable 2 wheeler, you are not supposed to be between fast 4 wheelers.
2 wheelers should be BESIDE cars, not between cars.

im a cyclist
Good for you, I've probably cycled more before I was 18 than you in the past 10 years... I've cycled to school since I was 8 or 9 or so).
I'm a car driver, own 2 cars, 1 motorbike, a scooter, a moped, and a bike for cycling.


Cyclist is at fault because hes basically undertaking stationary traffic, he should either :

a) stop because the mini bus has stopped for a reason
Nonsense, mini bus stopped to not block the junction in congestion like he should, it is completely irrelevant, beacuse there is enough space for cyclign near the kerb and the cyclist has the right of way. I admit, it's not smart of the cyclist to go there at his speed, it's completely irrelevant to who's at fault though.
b) overtake the stationary traffic on the outside
Are you insane? No, stationary traffic can be passed on either sides, like in any congestion or queue situation.
And the rule to keep to the left (here right) as most as you can is leading, if there is space between the kerb and cars, that's where they belong.
should treat single lanes as multi lanes.
They should and in any country where there are more cyclist they do... It's the only situation that works normally.
Again a black and white and silly perspective that forgoes the reality of day to day road use and anything you would be taught on an advanced/police driving course.
Don't be silly, the right of way is always leading, anything else is secondary, especially in insurance land. If the UK is different then you need to employ some people who aren't mentally impaired to make decent regulations based on objective (accident) statistics and experiments.

Accidents/conflicts mostly happen, in any accident where 2 or more parties are involved, because one person did not respect the right of way.
That the second person didn't ''defensively'' catch the mistake, is irrelevant. It's not the cause of the accident.
 
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Soldato
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I don't think we can actually tell how fast the cyclist is actually going you only see him for a split second. Most of the comments in this thread are all if's and buts What we actually know is:

The car driver turned across a road he couldn't fully see if it was clear and cut the corner on the road he was turning into because of the Van's position. A risky move which could have been avoided.

The cyclist undertook a vehicle near a junction where he couldn't see incoming traffic, again could have been avoided.

The law says when turning right you must give way to oncoming traffic therefore the car driver is almost certainly legally at fault.

As with almost all accidents on the roads if both parties has been taking more care it would have been avoided but the car drivers insurance will have to take it on the chin.
 
Soldato
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^we know the cyclist was going fast enough not only to prevent him safely stopping in the distance he could see ahead, but to leave him even after braking to still be travelling fast enough to send him flying.

not only is that against the highway code, but it's also flying in the face of basic common sense for any vehicle.

again, despite this starting to sound like a broken record, but add an engine to the bike and everybody would be "hah what a tool"
 
Soldato
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^we know the cyclist was going fast enough not only to prevent him safely stopping in the distance he could see ahead, but to leave him even after braking to still be travelling fast enough to send him flying.

not only is that against the highway code, but it's also flying in the face of basic common sense for any vehicle.

again, despite this starting to sound like a broken record, but add an engine to the bike and everybody would be "hah what a tool"

The cyclist had what a second to react? The average reaction time is like 2.3 seconds to hit the breaks in a car.
 
Soldato
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I don't think we can actually tell how fast the cyclist is actually going you only see him for a split second. Most of the comments in this thread are all if's and buts What we actually know is:

The car driver turned across a road he couldn't fully see if it was clear and cut the corner on the road he was turning into because of the Van's position. A risky move which could have been avoided.

The cyclist undertook a vehicle near a junction where he couldn't see incoming traffic, again could have been avoided.

The law says when turning right you must give way to oncoming traffic therefore the car driver is almost certainly legally at fault.
Which is ultimately the only thing that matters!

Yes if you go through a red and someone else sees you and brake: accident avoided, but it's completely irrelevant. The person going through ''green'' has the right to go on...

Any accident with 2 or more parties can be avoided from all sides, that means absolutely nothing to who is at blame legally or for the insurance though.
 
Soldato
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The cyclist had what a second to react? The average reaction time is like 2.3 seconds to hit the breaks in a car.

if he'd slowed down when passing the van sufficiently, he'd have had longer than a second to react ;)

at the end of the day the cyclist's reaction time in this scenario could only be influenced by his own actions in terms of the speed he approached the junction past the van blocking his view.
 
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Soldato
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The average reaction time is like 2.3 seconds to hit the breaks in a car.
Where do you get this nonsense from, on average it's about one second for someone with his eyes on the road/paying attntn (lets ignore those mobile phone zombies atm, which means normal young and healthy people react faster), 2.4 seconds? In what world, A world of slow people or pensioners only? Or some world where everybody's had a few pints before riding/driving?
 
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Soldato
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I agree you can react in less than 1 second if your alert except most drivers are just not. There is a difference between reaction and actually hitting the breaks which is more like 2.3 seconds.

The first few hits on google support this.

This still doesn't change the fact it is legally the cars fault.

Both of them could have equally avoided it by taking more care...
 
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