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Intel launches Core-X series with up to 18-cores for 1999 USD

madindehead said:
Interesting article on the whole solder vs TIM thing:

http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/
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Stop hating on Intel. Intel has some of the best engineers in the world when it comes to metallurgy. They know exactly what they are doing and the reason for conventional thermal paste in recent desktop CPUs is not as simple as it seems.

Micro cracks in solder preforms can damage the CPU permanently after a certain amount of thermal cycles and time. Conventional thermal paste doesn’t perform as good as the solder preform but it should have a longer durability – especially for small size DIE CPUs.
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Saying thermal paste doesn't perform as well as solder is a bit of an understatement given the difference can be 20-30 degrees! I am not convinced by the primary pro-thermal-paste argument either: how many CPUs over the years have actually failed due to solder cracks under the IHS? Four?

People also wouldn't care as much if Intel used good quality thermal paste and applied it well. We're talking about £300+ CPUs here that are aimed at the enthusiast, overclocker, and workstation markets! Fobbing them off with some crappy TIM when the previous generations used a superior method is shameful, no matter how you try to spin it.
 
I think his point was more that soldering isn't actually that easy to do. Yes, it sucks that people feel forced to de-lid to achieve better temps. Most people overclocking these will most likely see pretty good performance with just the stock TIM.

And whilst people feel "cheated" by Intel, the product will still work, and run within thermal limits. It's not like Intel is deliberately trying to gimp their devices.
 
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Oh it's not easy is it, AMD do it for all their CPU range but overpriced penny pinching Intel can't because max profits is better than giving the consumer a properly cooled chip. **** Intel.
 
business isnt about love its about making money.dont be deluded in thinking companies love you they dont.they love your money.
 
madindehead said:
I think his point was more that soldering isn't actually that easy to do. Yes, it sucks that people feel forced to de-lid to achieve better temps. Most people overclocking these will most likely see pretty good performance with just the stock TIM.

And whilst people feel "cheated" by Intel, the product will still work, and run within thermal limits. It's not like Intel is deliberately trying to gimp their devices.
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Well said! I am disappointed with this myself, and will need to see the consequences of their decision, however the product will work fine. I won't be delidding for one.

Side note: And honestly, all the blind lovey for one or the other company and then bashing whatever has become irritating to put it mildly. It's infantile and a waste of my time.
 
TheF34RChannel said:
Side note: And honestly, all the blind lovey for one or the other company and then bashing whatever has become irritating to put it mildly. It's infantile and a waste of my time.
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Absolutely, I'm buying either Skylake-X or Threadripper but I'm waiting until pricing and proper benchmarks are out before making my choice. Personally, I'm really happy we have some completion for once. As customers we win by having two companies competing for our money, I don't get the fanboyism. Even if you're a hardcore intel guy.. you'll end up with better prices and possibly a better product thanks to AMD.
 
TheF34RChannel said:
Well said! I am disappointed with this myself, and will need to see the consequences of their decision, however the product will work fine. I won't be delidding for one.

Side note: And honestly, all the blind lovey for one or the other company and then bashing whatever has become irritating to put it mildly. It's infantile and a waste of my time.
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Oh the product will work fine, no qualms about that. It's interesting though that the primary edge Intel currently has is clock speeds and overclock headroom but if you're in a situation where you pretty much have to delid your very expensive CPU to be able to do that, it just further increases the price gap between an equivalent AMD CPU.

I dunno it just seems like craziness to me, but enthusiasts will seemingly pay double the money for 10% more performance in a particular scenario. Intel know a sucker when they see one.
 
Well i paid 300 quid for my 5820k over 2 years ago, 7820 has 2 more cores with less cache, still only 28 lanes and quite a bit more expensive.. Then no more solder to top it off.

Any way you cut it it's not hard to be a bit disappointed.

No great value here for what will likely be a small boost over older processors, except for more cores if you can afford it.
 
DragonQ said:
Saying thermal paste doesn't perform as well as solder is a bit of an understatement given the difference can be 20-30 degrees! I am not convinced by the primary pro-thermal-paste argument either: how many CPUs over the years have actually failed due to solder cracks under the IHS? Four?

People also wouldn't care as much if Intel used good quality thermal paste and applied it well. We're talking about £300+ CPUs here that are aimed at the enthusiast, overclocker, and workstation markets! Fobbing them off with some crappy TIM when the previous generations used a superior method is shameful, no matter how you try to spin it.
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From my understanding solder cracks only appear due to the extreme temperature changes. Surely you won't get this during home use of a Chip.

The micro cracks will also decrease the thermal conductivity but will especially increase the thermal resistance at the corner of the DIE. Without the gold layer between diffusion barrier and solder preform, delamination of the solder preform would occure after few thermal cycles. Micro cracks occur after about 200 to 300 thermal cycles. A thermal cycle is performed by going from -55 °C to 125 °C while each temperature is hold for 15 minutes. The micro cracks will grow over time and can damage the CPU permanently if the thermal resistance increases too much or the solder preform cracks completely.
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RavenXXX2 said:
Oh it's not easy is it, AMD do it for all their CPU range but overpriced penny pinching Intel can't because max profits is better than giving the consumer a properly cooled chip. **** Intel.
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Stop being melodramatic. It's not like the chip isn't properly cooled. Chip vendors don't go about selling products that aren't properly cooled. That's how you end up with a lot of returns.

Chip vendors aren't in the business of just doing whatever saves money: you do what is required, to ensure a working product. it's not like someone at Intel went "just give them whatever, it's fine". A lot of engineering time goes into the package and it's associated parts. And a lot of work will have gone into comparing the two setups: TIM vs solder.

Oh, and just because AMD does it, doesn't mean that it's easy to do.
 
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haszek said:
It means it's easy enough for smaller company to do it and still make money.
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That's an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. You don't know all the decisions that have been made regarding the Intel chips. But of course, it's easier for people to brush it off as Intel being "penny pinching". Pathetic.
 
madindehead said:
People in here are acting like Intel don't know what they are doing regarding their thermal interface. It's laughable.
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In what way? We already have several generations of chips that use TIM and, particularly now that Intel is relying on their superior clock speeds, it struggles to keep temperatures under control when overclocking compared to traditional solder.
 
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