Dishwasher real world costs

[ttaskmaster]

Exactly. British plugs are like tanks. They rarely ever break, unlike the delicate electronics in most modern tech, where it costs more to buy that single part and replace it than just buy a replacement device.

That mentality and most of those skills are transferrable and developable, though. There have been several things I've done around the house this year, figured out and enabled by my skills and experience with similar but still other tasks.
I like being able to do 'stuff'.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects".
-Robert Heinlein

I think I’ve only ever broken one plug in my life. And yes, I did put a new one in.

I've already met someone this year who couldn't even be bothered to look up changing a broken one... and fried their fingers off the mains as a result.

Got your own loom in the shed then?

The bet was whether we know how to, not that we actually do.
I do know how... I just leave the doing of it to the wife. It's supposedly womens' work and she likes to harp on about her Viking heritage, so....
I do, however, like to make stuff and I fully anticipate being asked to make her a traditional Viking pattern loom before the end of next year!

Why waste your time on something that’s going to save you £20 when it’s going to take you a few hours and faf of your time (which is worth £20 an hour).

Because I'm not at work, so my time isn't paid whatever I do.
Because I can fix it and it's not about saving money.
Because a new one will take a week for delivery, if it's even in stock, and the courier won't deliver when I'm actually home to sign for it so I have to go get it from the sorting office or have it left with the **** of a neighbour next door... and I need the damn thing, in working order, now.

It made sense when that device was a weeks wages, but not when you could earn more in the time it took to repair it.

If you're really measuring your life by how much money you could be making in the time you spend living your life, what is the point?
You're supposed to work to live, not the other way around.

Might as well not eat, because the time taken to work off any extra calories would detract from how much money you could make... as would the time taken to calculate the exact number of calories you need in the first place.

Honestly I hope when I get old I don’t turn into one of those “younguns these days” people.

Define "old".....
I was like that before I even left school.

Maybe one day we’ll all learn that people have different strengths.

Yes - People like me can do things for ourselves, people like you can request our services and pay us via your smart phones...

This coming from a millennial that does try and repair his stuff. I’ve repaired phone, cars and other devices, but the more I earn the less bothered about it I am, because it just becomes not worth it time/benefit wise.

It's not just time or money, but the knowledge itself - Not only will it help stop you getting bullshat if you need to hire a professional, but often simply knowing the problem and when it's just a simple 30-second fix most certainly is worth it.

The 'more I earn' thing above is the exact same attitude of a friend of mine - Quite an old person, I think you'd say and the one I mentioned earlier who drove 45 miles and paid £20 just to have someone fit his wiper blades.
Either it's a symptom of being overpaid, or you already are an old fogey!!

 

[Amp34]

That mentality and most of those skills are transferrable and developable, though. There have been several things I've done around the house this year, figured out and enabled by my skills and experience with similar but still other tasks.
I like being able to do 'stuff'.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects".
-Robert Heinlein


I've already met someone this year who couldn't even be bothered to look up changing a broken one... and fried their fingers off the mains as a result.

And that's the critical point. You (and I) like to do this sort of thing. I was taking apart broken RC cars and electronics at the age of 10 and building new things from the components. Most people aren't interested in that. We like to know how things work and can derive satisfaction from understanding, repairing and building things. Others don't.

The bet was whether we know how to, not that we actually do.
I do know how... I just leave the doing of it to the wife. It's supposedly womens' work and she likes to harp on about her Viking heritage, so....
I do, however, like to make stuff and I fully anticipate being asked to make her a traditional Viking pattern loom before the end of next year!

Well in which case I know how to fly a 747.

Doesn't mean I won't crash and burn (probably literally) if I actually tried it on my own.

There's the theoretical knowledge and the actual ability to do it reliably, which is more what I was aiming at.

Because I'm not at work, so my time isn't paid whatever I do.
Because I can fix it and it's not about saving money.
Because a new one will take a week for delivery, if it's even in stock, and the courier won't deliver when I'm actually home to sign for it so I have to go get it from the sorting office or have it left with the **** of a neighbour next door... and I need the damn thing, in working order, now.


If you're really measuring your life by how much money you could be making in the time you spend living your life, what is the point?
You're supposed to work to live, not the other way around.

Might as well not eat, because the time taken to work off any extra calories would detract from how much money you could make... as would the time taken to calculate the exact number of calories you need in the first place.

Actually, if you don't enjoy fixing things then in fact it could arguably be the opposite way round. Doing "chores' (including fixing things) is work, just a different type of work. If if you work to live then many would rather pass that work on to someone else, even if it costs money. Data suggests you'll be happier for it.

Money can buy you happiness, claim researchers

Money can buy you happiness, it would appear.

Or, at least, money can buy you extra free time and that may make you happier, according to a new study.

The research suggests that, instead of engaging in “retail therapy” in an attempt to feel better, people with enough money should spend it on paying someone else to do chores, such as cleaning, cooking, mowing the lawn, household maintenance or even shopping.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...eaner-cook-gardener-time-stress-a7857731.html

Why faf around working if you can just outsource that time and do something you enjoy instead? Especially if you don't want to live to work.

Define "old".....
I was like that before I even left school.

I get the impression that most people complaining are in the 50+ range.

Yes - People like me can do things for ourselves, people like you can request our services and pay us via your smart phones...

It's not just time or money, but the knowledge itself - Not only will it help stop you getting bullshat if you need to hire a professional, but often simply knowing the problem and when it's just a simple 30-second fix most certainly is worth it.

The 'more I earn' thing above is the exact same attitude of a friend of mine - Quite an old person, I think you'd say and the one I mentioned earlier who drove 45 miles and paid £20 just to have someone fit his wiper blades.
Either it's a symptom of being overpaid, or you already are an old fogey!!

People like me? Personally I hate hiring someone to do something. I feel like it's more hassle than just doing it yourself. I change the oil and tyres on my car myself for example, not because it costs more (I get free wheel swaps and can get free oil changes), but because I'm too lazy to faf around booking an appointment, driving to the place, waiting around for someone to (probably) do a sub par job, and then drive back. Quicker for me to just do it myself.

At the same time I don't mind doing it, and get satisfaction from it. If I didn't, and would rather do something more enjoyable (say going for a hike/skiing, or watching a film) then it may be worth my money to pay someone to do it. Which is likely to be the attitude of many others. When I was earning less (read unemployed) I had more time during the day to do "stuff", now I'm working again (the standard 35 hour week) I have less time to do "stuff" and still be able to go and hike, ski do other stuff so the idea of just buying a replacement or getting someone else to do something is higher up my thought process.

To turn things on their head a little. Yes, perhaps many millennials can't change a plug. But then why do many need to? On the other hand the number of old women that can't drive is amazing. That's an essential skill in today's world, much greater than changing a plug, yet they never learned. Does that mean we should despair at the older generation? Should we dispair at them because they can't use a printer, email, a smart phone, or other "essential" skills in today's world?

Online banking is pretty important in today's world, yet many of the older generation can't do that either. They're reliant on the ever closing post offices and cheques to do much of their banking and bill payment. Should we denigrate them for that as well? If they were millennials many of the older generation would be.

 

[Usher]

Have you been living in a cave for the past 15 years?

EU has pushed energy saving legislation on us year upon year. If your dishwasher is using loads of electricity then it's probably because it's 15+ years old and should have broken by now.

Do you need a visit to specsavers?? read my post -it says I recently bought a Zanussi

 

[Usher]

?

 

[MassiveJim]

we bought a new build and I stupidly let my other half convince me that she didn't want a dishwasher in favour of an extra cupboard

Can't even retro fit one now because said cupboard was made smaller to allow for a larger sink unit cupboard

 

[MassiveJim]

At least I’m not the only one that this happens to. That pain as you have to force yourself upright again.

My physio said try opening the cupboard door under the sink and resting one leg on that, it forces you to use better posture and reduces back ache.

 

[Amp34]

Not entirely sure how that would work when you’re physically too tall to reach the bottom of the sink without bending, but I’ll give it a try.

 

[jpaul]

the low hanging fruit are too enticing -

Online banking is pretty important in today's world, yet many of the older generation can't do that either.

the millenials/xfactors are unable to manage a budget, despite the simplicity of the interest rates, so, need to consult their bank account every day ? ( more or less frequently than facebook) - more maths teachers needed.

had bookmarked this article they appear to be more intelligent

As a consequence, we all became a bit better at thinking abstractly, leading to an increase of at least 30 points over the last century.
..
Which brings us round to his concerns about millennials. Despite the gains in IQ, he worries that we aren’t engaging our minds effectively on the issues that matter. “I’m not being gloomy but actually the major intellectual thing that disturbs me is that young people like you are reading less history and less serious novels than you used to,” he says, arguing that we should have a background in the crises that have shaped world history before we form opinions on current politics.
..
George Orwell, he says, painted a dystopia where the government rewrites history to control and manipulate the population. “But all you need are ‘ahistorical’ people who then live in the bubble of the present, and by fashioning that bubble the government and the media can do anything they want with them,” Flynn adds.

My physio said try opening the cupboard door under the sink and resting one leg on that, it forces you to use better posture and reduces back ache

stooping for the dish washer, may present problems itself ? - but I suppose it is a squats exercise.

 

[Amp34]

the low hanging fruit are too enticing -

the millenials/xfactors are unable to manage a budget, despite the simplicity of the interest rates, so, need to consult their bank account every day ? ( more or less frequently than facebook) - more maths teachers needed.

had bookmarked this article they appear to be more intelligent






stooping for the dish washer, may present problems itself ? - but I suppose it is a squats exercise.

Not really low hanging fruit. It has nothing to do with not being able to manage budgets, rather things like paperless billing and statements, transferring money and paying bills, making sure bills have gone through, salary has been paid etc. The kind of things that used to be done at banks and the Post office.

Thanks, however, for providing more evidence to back up the point I was making.

And we were talking about washing up using a bowl/sink, not stooping for the dishwasher. If you’re over ~6 you’ll understand, if you’re less than that you probably won’t.

 

[Mercutio]

Spent a few years rather against them.
Older ones - pointless, had one came with the house. We got it up and running and... most stuff needed a pre-wash.
New one...
Firstly, it absolutely DOES completely wash ****ing ANYTHING. We've had trays with crap burnt to carbon come out pristine.
Secondly, you load it as you use stuff, mild bit of tetris before you set it going and forget about it.

Saves a good few minutes a day doing it by hand. I'm completely converted.

 

[theone8181]

I'm holding out for black Friday/Jan sales before ordering one then I can join the revolution.

 

[ants83]

Wouldn't be without mind.

 

[mattyg]

Ditch the kettle. You can boil water in a pan and gas is cheaper then leccy....

Says the man who has just ordered a boiling water tap and a 2nd dishwasher....

 

[Destination]

Much is made about how much water they use but what about electric, our recently bought Zanussi uses very little water as it recirculates it several times.
Unlike our old noisy one this is almost silent but it runs for 2.5 hours and must keep heating the water back up so I've no idea how much electric it uses as we are due a bill soon

With reheating the same small amount of water inside a closed insulated space it probably isn't using that much power.
Think kettle boiling a few litres, stays hot for ages, doesn't need much reheated, and kettles are not overly insulated.

I think ours will use 6 litres on eco cycle, or 12 litres on normal cycle, as it uses the previous waste for the initial rinse on eco. Then changes to fresh on eco, or changes twice on auto cycle.
Use less than 2 units per go also, forget the exact amount.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Ditch the kettle. You can boil water in a pan and gas is cheaper then leccy....

We don't get gas out here....

And that's the critical point. You (and I) like to do this sort of thing.

I like being able to do this sort of thing. It reinforces my independence and self-reliance and all that... Doesn't mean I enjoy it. Just doesn't make sense to hire someone for.
Other things I know how and am able to do, but I will pass over to or hire someone else because they can do it better, or have better tools... or because they will enjoy it more than I will.

There's the theoretical knowledge and the actual ability to do it reliably, which is more what I was aiming at.

Again, I can do it. I choose not to, because she will enjoy it more (and possibly do a better job).
Kinda the same reason my mates get me to do their PC cable management - I'm better at it, have more patience and it means I will shut up about their messy cases.

Actually, if you don't enjoy fixing things then in fact it could arguably be the opposite way round. Doing "chores' (including fixing things) is work, just a different type of work.

If you want to look at it like that, then so is everything, including wiping your own arse... I don't see many people being hired as Bottom Attendants, though.
In this context work is generally what one does to earn the wages needed to live.

If if you work to live then many would rather pass that work on to someone else, even if it costs money. Data suggests you'll be happier for it.

That's not really living, by my understanding of it, though. That's paying someone else to live your life, while you **** out with nothing to do, probably talking to your expensive psychiatrist about how unfulfilled your life is and how nothing has any value or meaning any more...

I get the impression that most people complaining are in the 50+ range.

That's not old. That's not even early retirement age....
Also, I think you'd be surprised at how old some people here aren't...!!

faf around booking an appointment, driving to the place, waiting around for someone to (probably) do a sub par job, and then drive back

But that's the price people pay for paying someone else to do things for them... and then complain on the forums that no tradesperson wants to do their piddly little jobs!!

To turn things on their head a little. Yes, perhaps many millennials can't change a plug. But then why do many need to?

Based on my personal experience alone, I'd say a lot of people need extention leads that are longer than what the shops sell.
In general though, it's the simplest and most commonly encountered instance of wiring something up, pretty much a foundation skill from which one extrapolates.
For example, I knew how to wire a mains plug, so simply read the diagram and extended my skill to wiring up a six pin connector on my motorcycle... and then repaired someone's headlight connector... and later on almost completely rewired an entire vehicle.
It's not just the knowledge and ability, but the confidence to take it further as well. Same for many other things that people are ignoring these days.

On the other hand the number of old women that can't drive is amazing. That's an essential skill in today's world, much greater than changing a plug, yet they never learned.

I never learned to drive or ride, until I was no longer living in London. In fact, many places are still perfectly viable without a personal vehicle.

Does that mean we should despair at the older generation? Should we dispair at them because they can't use a printer, email, a smart phone, or other "essential" skills in today's world?

No more than you should "despair" at the young folk who also cannot, usually because their life choices negate the need for such things.

Online banking is pretty important in today's world, yet many of the older generation can't do that either.

It is a service that is seeing widespread use, yes... but even young folk undertake cash in hand work - Probably a lot more than the oldies, actually. People sell things for cash on eBay and at car boot sales. People make a lot of use of in-branch services and the queues are as long as they've always been. Loads of things you cannot do online.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Spent a few years rather against them.
Older ones - pointless, had one came with the house. We got it up and running and... most stuff needed a pre-wash.
New one...
Firstly, it absolutely DOES completely wash ****ing ANYTHING. We've had trays with crap burnt to carbon come out pristine.
Secondly, you load it as you use stuff, mild bit of tetris before you set it going and forget about it.

Saves a good few minutes a day doing it by hand. I'm completely converted.

what make is your new one?

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Ditch the kettle. You can boil water in a pan and gas is cheaper then leccy....

Says the man who has just ordered a boiling water tap and a 2nd dishwasher....

iirc kettles are still more efficient than pans when it comes to boiling water. probably due to the time taken to heat the water up. as gas is heating it up it loses more energy over time.

i'm still not sold on boiling water taps. for them to be worth it you would literally need to be using boiling water at least 5 times a day. you can get kettles now which give you a cupful of boiling water on demand too. i think the cost of them plus the running costs aren't worth it unless like i say you constantly need boiling hot water which a lot of people don't need. nobody drinks tea in my house and we already have a coffee machine. the only time we use the kettle is when making pasta or for hot water bottles.

 

[FTM]

I was another dishwasher sceptic

now I couldnt imagine life without one!

 

[mattyg]

iirc kettles are still more efficient than pans when it comes to boiling water. probably due to the time taken to heat the water up. as gas is heating it up it loses more energy over time.

i'm still not sold on boiling water taps. for them to be worth it you would literally need to be using boiling water at least 5 times a day. you can get kettles now which give you a cupful of boiling water on demand too. i think the cost of them plus the running costs aren't worth it unless like i say you constantly need boiling hot water which a lot of people don't need. nobody drinks tea in my house and we already have a coffee machine. the only time we use the kettle is when making pasta or for hot water bottles.

Its not all about cost all the time. Ease of use. clutter free worktop. Just coz..lol

If I wanted to save money I would ditch the two huge Pioneer Kuro radiators...

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Has anyone seen the assembler with James May
Its quite interesting watching and listening to the things he says

For anyone unfamiliar he has an already disassembled item and puts it back together
Typically quite old items

He said something quite interesting in one of the recent episodes (recent to me, not sure when actually broadcast), he was rebuilding an old food mixer and said along the lines of the egyptians were basically doing this process thousands of years ago, ie its perfected, bu if you dropped your smartphone into the loo you should just go and get a new one as they will be better.
Which when you think about it makes sense, for lots of things they moved on massively and then incrementally very slowly, washing machines, lawn mowers etc are really not that different, but tech items are still changing significantly and do things noticably better each generation. When things are changing a lot you should throw them away and get a better newer one when they break.