Bah, I can't decide what graphics card to buy. If any.

melmac · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:04

Feoilban said:
Again ... that doesnt apply to the OP .... he doesnt own a 380 or a 290x He owns a 7950 .... Upgrading to a 580 will give him a nice perf boost ...

The continuous Whinging about price/perf doesnt change the fact that the OP needs a card that plays current games at 1080p ... A 580/1060 will suit him nicely

But you can prove me wrong ... show me a bench that is not flawed according to you showing OP's 7950 vs a 580

I agree with this. The 380 is not the 7950.

OP upgrading to the 1060 or 580 will be a pretty good performance jump. You have to spend another £120 at least to get to the next level of performance.

Martini1991 · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:07

melmac said:
Sorry, but, the 380 is not a rebrand of the 280, it's a rebrand of the 285. The 285 is a Tonga chip(basically cut down Hawaii) The 280 is the 7950 rebranded Tahiti chip. So the benchmarks you linked to aren't exactly like for like. There is probably a bigger performance difference between the 7950 and the 580/1060 then your link suggests.

I forgot about Tonga. Not sure how much different they are, not much I bet.

Can't really find anything up to date benchmark wise. But I'll concede, you're right they're not the same

Martini1991 · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:08

melmac said:
I agree with this. The 380 is not the 7950.

OP upgrading to the 1060 or 580 will be a pretty good performance jump. You have to spend another £120 at least to get to the next level of performance.

That 120 extra is higher percentage performance increase than cash increase. 580 is a crap buy. If a higher end card offers better price/performance then you know there's a problem.

rhysduck · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:11

I'll be going to 580 if one comes up cheap in the BF sales. coming from 2 7950's.

Ste · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:26

Second hand 980ti will outperform a 1070 in most cases and can be had for 250 or so. Think that’s where your money is best out for a solid upgrade.

If you’re still on the fence find a 970 for 130-150 or so and sell yours for 50. Cheap upgrade

Tommy_Here · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:32

A 980 Ti get it clocked to 1400mhz+ that will be a huge upgrade from 7950

Thekwango · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:32

rhysduck said:
I'll be going to 580 if one comes up cheap in the BF sales. coming from 2 7950's.

for me, they'd have to be 200 quid max to be worth it. anything over and they are still over priced. I highly doubt though that we'll see any RX580's £200 or below, £225-£240 might be the best price that appears.

LtMatt · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:36

Angilion said:
Warning - pointless rambling ahead!

I want a new toy to replace my Radeon 7950. I've certainly got my money's worth out of that card (I bought it used for ~£100 IIRC) but it's lacking in grunt nowadays even though I'm gaming at 1920x1080.

But the problem is what to replace it with. I'm balking at the current price of graphics cards. £400 for a high midrange card. £250 for 2.5 year old second hand cards not quite as good as those.

But then I look at a 1070...and think that a 1070ti isn't much more expensive...and then think that a 1080 isn't much more expensive...and then I'm looking at £500+ for a graphics card...and then I think that's really silly and my 7950 is still working and tolerable for 1080...and then I play my FO4 with my ludicrously elaborate settlements and ~150 mods and it's really quite sub par...and then I look at a 1070 and....you see how this goes.

I've looked at Vega56 and 64, but they're louder and more power-hungry (I have a good quality 600W PSU that should be enough, but I'd rather have it under lower load and thus quieter) and not cheaper or better so I'm leaning towards nVidia this time.

And now I've seen a decent quality 1070 Ti with a good cooler for £417 and that's a good price for a 1070 Ti that's silent when not gaming, quiet even under stress testing and boosts as high as ~1900MHz at stock settings at 1920x1080. It beats a stock 1080 in a couple of games at 1920x1080 because of how high it boosts at stock.

But...that's not pocket change. £417 seems like a hell of a lot for a graphics card to me.

The money isn't a hard constraint by itself. I've been lucky and I've become very prudent with money as I've got older and so I have accumulated some spare cash despite being a minimum wage flunkey. Not a lot, but more than enough for this without any trouble. It's just that, well, I've become very prudent with money. £400+ for a graphics card feels like too much.

Black Friday is being mentioned, but I doubt if graphics cards will have any actual reductions. I was looking at another site and they had some graphics cards with big reductions labelled on them, but that was blatant lying. The prices were the same - all they'd done was put some much higher prices next to the real prices and crossed out the higher prices. The usual price is 25% off this made up price! Bargain!

Maybe prices will go down after Christmas...and maybe it won't be all that long until the next gen comes out and maybe they'll be significantly better so I could buy a lower model for a much lower price and make do with my 7950 for a while longer...

And now I've talked myself out of it again I'm going to sleep on it.

I think a £248 RX 580 might be a better choice having read your opening post.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/giga...ddr5-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-194-gi.html

melmac · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:40

Martini1991 said:
I forgot about Tonga. Not sure how much different they are, not much I bet.

Can't really find anything up to date benchmark wise. But I'll concede, you're right they're not the same

Martini1991 said:
That 120 extra is higher percentage performance increase than cash increase. 580 is a crap buy. If a higher end card offers better price/performance then you know there's a problem.

Whatever dude. The fact still remains, the OP has a 7950. If he gets a 580 or a 1060 he will be getting double the performance on average over the card he has for £250, probably for less than that if he shops around.

Or else go second hand and get the 980ti.

LtMatt · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:44

^ 580 would indeed offer over double the performance of a 7950, judging on a 7970 vs 580 comparison and have lower power draw.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1722?vs=1868

Martini1991 · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:46

melmac said:
Whatever dude. The fact still remains, the OP has a 7950. If he gets a 580 or a 1060 he will be getting double the performance on average over the card he has for £250, probably for less than that if he shops around.

Or else go second hand and get the 980ti.

It's no wonder why prices are so poor when this is the attitude.

When the OP has a budget that can be stretched, there's no logic to *just* getting a 580. Regardless of how well it performs over a 7950, the performance it offers at its price point is old hat and how long until that isn't good enough? That's my concern.

Thekwango · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:51

Martini1991 said:
It's no wonder why prices are so poor when this is the attitude.

When the OP has a budget that can be stretched, there's no logic to *just* getting a 580. Regardless of how well it performs over a 7950, the performance it offers at its price point is old hat and how long until that isn't good enough? That's my concern.

Come on man you know that 'attitude' isn't the reason for the poor prices.
I do agree though the prices are all wrong. The 580 is a £180-£190 card. £200 tops.

Martini1991 · 17 Nov 2017 at 13:53

Thekwango said:
Come on man you know that 'attitude' isn't the reason for the poor prices.
I do agree though the prices are all wrong. The 580 is a £180-£190 card. £200 tops.

The attitude to just buy regardless. If people continue to buy, we continue to get shafted. If people didn't buy. Well then it'd have to drop in price.

At the end of the day, the 580 is a 480 rebrand at a higher price point than 480s went EOL at. So we're literally paying for AMD's profit margin.

You've got Fury X's going on the MM for 250 and they'd be a better buy than a 4gb 580 any day of the week.

The hilarious part of things is people selling 580 and 480s for more than furys. It's ludicrous.

Thekwango · 17 Nov 2017 at 14:05

Martini1991 said:
The attitude to just buy regardless. If people continue to buy, we continue to get shafted. If people didn't buy. Well then it'd have to drop in price.

At the end of the day, the 580 is a 480 rebrand at a higher price point than 480s went EOL at. So we're literally paying for AMD's profit margin.

You've got Fury X's going on the MM for 250 and they'd be a better buy than a 4gb 580 any day of the week.

The hilarious part of things is people selling 580 and 480s for more than furys. It's ludicrous.

I don't think it's a 'buy regardless' attitude as such. It's more people have no option. If you're on a budget and looking a mid range mid priced card there's not much out there at the minute. The more it's over priced the 580 is as close to fitting that bill as there is.

It's all well and good saying people shouldn't pay those prices, of course they shouldn't but needs must and all that.

It's a similar scenario to dlc, loot crates etc in games.
Yes in an ideal world if people stopped buying/paying for these things then the manufacturers would have to move on prices, but sadly that's no going to happen any time soon.

Martini1991 · 17 Nov 2017 at 14:11

I understand people don't have a choice.
Like I bought a V64 but I'll certainly whinge about it.

Quartz · 17 Nov 2017 at 15:24

Angilion said:
I want a new toy to replace my Radeon 7950.

You can always wait. Or you can put your money down and start having fun now.

Thekwango · 17 Nov 2017 at 16:03

Martini1991 said:
I understand people don't have a choice.
Like I bought a V64 but I'll certainly whinge about it.

Lol. We all love a good whinge though.

If I was the OP I'd be watching for a cheap (properly priced) 580 on Black Friday deals to tide him over until gpu pricing normalises but that's just me.

melmac · 17 Nov 2017 at 16:23

Martini1991 said:
It's no wonder why prices are so poor when this is the attitude.

When the OP has a budget that can be stretched, there's no logic to *just* getting a 580. Regardless of how well it performs over a 7950, the performance it offers at its price point is old hat and how long until that isn't good enough? That's my concern.

What the hell? I pointed out the reality. The OP has a budget that can be stretched but also stated that he is on a minimum wage and stated several times in his OP that while he has saved a bit of money, he baulks at the idea of paying £400 for a graphics card. Again, the facts are that for £250 he can double the performance he is getting. It's up to him to decide if that's good enough or not. He plainly doesn't want to spend huge amounts on a GPU.

It's not just about the 580, he can buy the 1060 which you seem to be ignoring in your rants.

Martini1991 said:
The attitude to just buy regardless. If people continue to buy, we continue to get shafted. If people didn't buy. Well then it'd have to drop in price.

At the end of the day, the 580 is a 480 rebrand at a higher price point than 480s went EOL at. So we're literally paying for AMD's profit margin.

You've got Fury X's going on the MM for 250 and they'd be a better buy than a 4gb 580 any day of the week.

The hilarious part of things is people selling 580 and 480s for more than furys. It's ludicrous.

People are buying because there isn't anything else. It's too late to complain about pricing now, that ship has sailed a long time ago. Nvidia have shown that people are quite willing to pay large amounts for graphic cards.

Rebrands? LOL, that's been going on since the beginning of graphic cards and both Nvidia and AMD have done it loads of times.

Your point about Fury cards is rubbish. Second hand GPUs better value than new ones. Who knew?? The same rant that you are applying to the 580 also applies to the 1060. Second hand 980ti for £250 is a much better buy. Of course, the problem with this is that it's very hard to get the exact second hand card you are looking for when you want it. Take for instance the Fury X's going for sale on the MM, none at the moment. Only 7 have been on sale in the MM this year.

As for people selling 580s and 480s more than Furys, come on, don't act like you don't know the reason for this. Mining pure and simple. Fury cards are not good at mining.

Lastly, aren't you been a bit of a hypocrite. You constantly moaning about other peoples buying choices, even calling my attitude bad because I gave the OP the facts. While you yourself have purchased the Vega 64, a way worse card for price/performance than the 580/1060. Don't preach on forums about "attitude" when you can't walk the walk.

Martini1991 · 17 Nov 2017 at 17:04

You're making points about something I'm not making issues of. (The second hand being better value sarcasm has come from nowhere. I meant Fury X's second hand are cheaper than second hand 580's, it's a ludicrous scenario when we're buying them for gaming)

I don't wholly disagree that the 580 is a "solid" upgrade, but it's old hat performance at an old hat price, it isn't going to last because it's already lasted forever as it is at giving X performance at 1080p, buying something that offers better value that may last longer is surely better for someone who's concerned about money? A 1070 will basically triple his performance.

As for the hypocrite part. I tried holding off and I did for a long time, but my 290X was having issues with BSOD's (Although it was very hit and miss, could be fine for weeks then have about 5 in an hour). So I had no choice. I'm pretty sure you got annoyed at me previously when I mentioned my displeasure at prices (Long before I bought a Vega).

EDIT : V56 deals are going live Monday morning.

Telecaster · 17 Nov 2017 at 17:19

Martini1991 said:
That's a flawed comparison.
A genuine comparison is a 380x to a 580 so they're as close as they can be driver wise. A 380x is just another rebrand of the 7970.

Or if you want a comparison that actually mirrors the OP then the 380 versus 580.

Either way none of that changes the fact that 580 performance is comparable to a 290x and as I said. That upgrade from a 7950 is what we did years ago.

Should woulda coulda.

None of that matters. What matters are the facts, 7950 to 580/1060 is a massive upgrade and wouldn't cost the £400+ the OP is baulking at.

Ste said:
Second hand 980ti will outperform a 1070 in most cases and can be had for 250 or so. Think that’s where your money is best out for a solid upgrade.

It doesn't really, it's a match for the 1070 for sure in certain situations but it doesn't outperform it in most cases. I will agree though that a used one is a great buy.