Intel Preps Core i7 9700k 8 core 16 Thread Mainstream CPU

gavinh87 · 2 Dec 2017 at 07:13

smilingcrow said:
If you are upgrading CPUs that frequently are you using 1P systems when you should be using 2P?

Out of my hands I'm afraid. If hp/Dell did threadripper workstations at the last upgrade we would have been using those.

JediFragger · 2 Dec 2017 at 07:46

muon said:
Apparently it is 6+2 so it will be interesting to see what interconnect they are using.

That will certainly be *very* interesting if they are! Gaming will take a bit of a knock compared to 7700k/8700k...

Troezar · 2 Dec 2017 at 08:06

Anyone considered that Intel may be using TIM to hold back performance? Given the meagre increases between generations recently if the recent chips were soldered it would be even harder to beat that performance with the next cpu. They know they're close to the limit now of silicon/the current process so want to eke out as many new products as they can from the remaining performance.

It's not like AMD is beating Intel yet on outright performance and would fit with Intel's tactics to maximise revenue.

smilingcrow · 2 Dec 2017 at 12:30

gavinh87 said:
Out of my hands I'm afraid. If hp/Dell did threadripper workstations at the last upgrade we would have been using those.

Sounds as if you might want to consider 2P systems if you are that CPU constrained and upgrading so frequently.

Minstadave · 2 Dec 2017 at 12:31

muon said:
Apparently it is 6+2 so it will be interesting to see what interconnect they are using.

Funny that after all the whinging they did about AMD tacking together two dies.

ChocAndGray · 2 Dec 2017 at 14:20

Troezar said:
Anyone considered that Intel may be using TIM to hold back performance? Given the meagre increases between generations recently if the recent chips were soldered it would be even harder to beat that performance with the next cpu. They know they're close to the limit now of silicon/the current process so want to eke out as many new products as they can from the remaining performance.

It's not like AMD is beating Intel yet on outright performance and would fit with Intel's tactics to maximise revenue.

I think the dominant factor in using TIM is cost. The majority of consumers buying Intel CPU's couldn't care less, infact I'd bet they don't even know the difference lol. Intel would have no real benefit to using solder. They've even resorted to tim on their H.E.D.T platform, so it's certainly not to hold back performance. It's all about maximising profit.

The type of people like me and other's that are willing to de-lid and replace the TIM with liquid metal are a minority of buyers I'd bet...

I also don't think using TIM has prevented an increase in performance, if I remember rightly the last mainstream processors that were soldered were the 2500k, 2600k etc, and each cpu after has provided better performance, even if the differences were marginal, afterall the 2500k held up for some time.

Regardless of TIM or solder, I think as you say they're at the limit with the current silicon, hence they've moved on to simply adding more cores.

I personally think the 8700k will be the 2600k all over again, i.e a great purchase that is good enough for some time for gaming. An 8 core mainstream cpu will make next to no difference in gaming in my opinion. The "extreme" processors have never offered tangible performance gains over the mainstream, and if we look at the 7820x it's not dominant over the 8700k.

Where things will get interesting though is if AMD manage to push higher clock speeds with their Ryzen platform....

AndreiD · 2 Dec 2017 at 16:27

Intel's material science department did publish papers on how indium solder can damage small dies after lots of thermal cycles, but I don't think anyone knows at this point why they aren't soldering their big dies (Skylake-X for example).
Could be cost, could be long term stability (polymer TIM is a lot more stable than indium solder), could be any number of reasons and Intel so far hasn't said why they're switching to polymer TIM. In the end that's something to take into consideration when buying a CPU if you want to overclock it to its limits.

Silent_Scone · 3 Dec 2017 at 10:45

Supply of Coffee Lake is only ramping up in Q1, so these won't be around for a little while.

AndreiD said:
Intel's material science department did publish papers on how indium solder can damage small dies after lots of thermal cycles, but I don't think anyone knows at this point why they aren't soldering their big dies (Skylake-X for example).
Could be cost, could be long term stability (polymer TIM is a lot more stable than indium solder), could be any number of reasons and Intel so far hasn't said why they're switching to polymer TIM. In the end that's something to take into consideration when buying a CPU if you want to overclock it to its limits.

Environmental footprint. AMD aren't currently on the radar there, yet.

4K8KW10 · 3 Dec 2017 at 13:53

Jay343434 said:
I think the dominant factor in using TIM is cost. The majority of consumers buying Intel CPU's couldn't care less, infact I'd bet they don't even know the difference lol. Intel would have no real benefit to using solder. They've even resorted to tim on their H.E.D.T platform, so it's certainly not to hold back performance. It's all about maximising profit.

The type of people like me and other's that are willing to de-lid and replace the TIM with liquid metal are a minority of buyers I'd bet...

I also don't think using TIM has prevented an increase in performance, if I remember rightly the last mainstream processors that were soldered were the 2500k, 2600k etc, and each cpu after has provided better performance, even if the differences were marginal, afterall the 2500k held up for some time.

Regardless of TIM or solder, I think as you say they're at the limit with the current silicon, hence they've moved on to simply adding more cores.

I personally think the 8700k will be the 2600k all over again, i.e a great purchase that is good enough for some time for gaming. An 8 core mainstream cpu will make next to no difference in gaming in my opinion. The "extreme" processors have never offered tangible performance gains over the mainstream, and if we look at the 7820x it's not dominant over the 8700k.

Where things will get interesting though is if AMD manage to push higher clock speeds with their Ryzen platform....

TIM increases the temperatures which the chips work at and ultimately this means shorter life times in the end. No electronics circuits like higher temepratures. But all electronic circuits like colder temperatures

Silent_Scone said:
Supply of Coffee Lake is only ramping up in Q1, so these won't be around for a little while.

Environmental footprint. AMD aren't currently on the radar there, yet.

Huh, there is lead-free soldering.

AndreiD · 3 Dec 2017 at 17:32

@Silent_Scone you do make a very good point, I didn't think about the environmental impact.
@4K8KW10 it's always been lead-free, they use an indium solder sheet sandwiched between two layers of gold. Polymer TIM is going to be a lot more environmentally 'friendly' than soldering either way.

4K8KW10 · 3 Dec 2017 at 18:43

it's always been lead-free, they use an indium solder sheet sandwiched between two layers of gold. Polymer TIM is going to be a lot more environmentally 'friendly' than soldering either way.

Neither you nor Intel have that large a sample to claim that. Because if they manufacture burning, with high repurchasing rate CPUs (when customers are forced to buy relatively more often, because of higher temperatures and worse operational conditions), then the environmental "friendly" practice will be enemy for the environment.

Anyways, I'm scared to think about purchasing such a sub quality CPUs from Intel

Doobedoo · 3 Dec 2017 at 18:47

Der8uer already made that point back when he wrote this article. and someone on here disputed it.http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

Thinking about the ecology it makes sense to use conventional thermal paste. Gold and indium are rare and expensive materials. Mining of these materials is complex and in addition it’s polluting.

However, as cute as that sounds Intel are a corporation and corporations are usually less interested in environmental concerns as they are with their bottom line.

I'd accept a lot of these arguments like micro fracturing and what not, if it wasn't for the fact that Amd are using solder on their products. If anyone has a need to penny pinch it would be Amd.

Silent_Scone · 3 Dec 2017 at 19:38

4K8KW10 said:
Neither you nor Intel have that large a sample to claim that. Because if they manufacture burning, with high repurchasing rate CPUs (when customers are forced to buy relatively more often, because of higher temperatures and worse operational conditions), then the environmental "friendly" practice will be enemy for the environment.

Anyways, I'm scared to think about purchasing such a sub quality CPUs from Intel

Believe what you want to believe, I guess. I've heard it on good authority that it's at least partially the case. As for the the latter part of the post - lol.

gavinh87 · 3 Dec 2017 at 19:52

Doobedoo said:
Der8uer already made that point back when he wrote this article. and someone on here disputed it.http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

However, as cute as that sounds Intel are a corporation and corporations are usually less interested in environmental concerns as they are with their bottom line.

I'd accept a lot of these arguments like micro fracturing and what not, if it wasn't for the fact that Amd are using solder on their products. If anyone has a need to penny pinch it would be Amd.

We reduce our climate footprint by investing in alternative energy and smarter technologies. We increase our climate handprint by helping other sectors reduce their footprints. We also work with others to improve industry and policy. Since 2008, Intel has:

Invested more than $145 million in energy-conservation projects (saving an estimated 3.19 billion kWh of energy)

Corporation or not, they are helping the environment.

Doobedoo · 3 Dec 2017 at 19:56

gavinh87 said:
Corporation or not, they are helping the environment.

Lol I'm pretty sure that is what they all say but ok.

4K8KW10 · 3 Dec 2017 at 20:00

Silent_Scone said:
Believe what you want to believe, I guess. I've heard it on good authority that it's at least partially the case. As for the the latter part of the post - lol.

There is hard evidence from all places that TIM has severely inferior thermal conductivity properties. Other pastes are also better. Intel use the worst possible compound.
Now prove otherwise.

Doobedoo · 3 Dec 2017 at 20:03

4K8KW10 said:
There is hard eveidence from all places that TIM has severely inferior thermal conductivity properties. Other pastes are also better. Intel use the worst possible compound.
Now prove otherwise.

They use a compound that is designed for longevity rather than performance, which is fine for the lower end of their product lines. They should be using solder for their 'k' versions and above imo.

Doobedoo · 3 Dec 2017 at 20:05

I wonder If some would be so forgiving if it was Amd using Tim and Intel solder?

gavinh87 · 3 Dec 2017 at 20:16

Doobedoo said:
I wonder If some would be so forgiving if it was Amd using Tim and Intel solder?

They cannot afford to, add 20c to a 4ghz 1800x and you'll be looking at the same we have with intel.

Doobedoo · 3 Dec 2017 at 20:29

gavinh87 said:
They cannot afford to, add 20c to a 4ghz 1800x and you'll be looking at the same we have with intel.

I suppose It's a good job they decided to use a superior method for their cpus so that their customers have a better more reliable product.