[H]ardOCP: GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

Nablaoperator · 15 Mar 2018 at 14:28

Geck0 said:
So what you are saying is that people too stupid, inexperienced or with insufficient attention span required to competently install an add in board and driver suite should buy an nVidia product?

Yes - thats cold business logic

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 15 Mar 2018 at 14:54

Nablaoperator said:
Yes - thats cold business logic

I had a RX470 and now have a GTX1080FE now - I downloaded the driver and installed it for both cards.

Both worked fine. The same with every single mate of mine,many of who are not computer enthusiasts - they installed their AMD/Nvidia card with no problems. None of them are teenagers!!

If you have a problem installing a card and downloading a driver and pressing the install button,well the PC is not really a good start,so if you lack time,etc a console just makes more sense.

I have been a PC builder for close to 15 years,and if you had a penny for each time every side has talked up how much better their drivers were,I would be a millionaire,and after owning dozens of ATI/AMD/Nvidia cards and being quite a lazy enthusiast,9.9/10 I have had not an issue with either side.

The only time I have had issues(which have been very rare) is when ATI/AMD/Nvidia push out a driver too quickly before testing and you saw the ATI/AMD/Nvidia driver threads and websites moaning about it.

Edit!!

That does not include the fact Steam and Windows also looks for driver updates too,on top of things like the Geforce Experience and the AMD driver stack.

Second Edit!!

I am talking about single card setups - I only know one person who had dual card setups from AMD/Nvidia and he got fedup with them as more and more games seem to not scale as well anymore.

But as AT said a few years ago,that is due to the consoles.

nashathedog · 15 Mar 2018 at 15:26

It looks like more of the same to me, It's just another way of marketing blackbox tech like Gameworks.

This transparency is only possible when NVIDIA brands and partner brands are consistent. So the new program means that we'll be promoting our GPP partner brands across the web, on social media, at events and more. And GPP partners will get early access to our latest innovations, and work closely with our engineering team to bring the newest technologies to gamers.

D.P. · 15 Mar 2018 at 15:31

humbug said:
What you just quoted agrees with me:

What would it mean to have your "Gaming Brand Aligned Exclusively With GeForce?" The example that will likely resonate best with HardOCP readers is the ASUS Republic of Gamers brand. I have no knowledge if ASUS is a GPP partner, I am simply using the ROG brand hypothetically. If ASUS is an NVIDIA GPP partner, and it wants to continue to use NVIDIA GPUs in its ROG branded video cards, computers, and laptops, it can no longer sell any other company's GPUs in ROG products. So if ASUS want to keep building NVIDIA-based ROG video cards, it can no longer sell AMD-based ROG video cards, and be a GPP partner.

Yes, ASUs can;t sell ROG branded AMD gpus if they sell ROG branded Nvidi9a GPUs. If ASUS just brand Nvidia GPUs with something else then ASUS are free to use ROG for everything else. OR conversely, they use ROG for Nvidia and have a new brand for everything else.

D.P. · 15 Mar 2018 at 15:33

nashathedog said:
It looks like more of the same to me, It's just another way of marketing blackbox tech like Gameworks.

Nvidia always worked closely with AIBs like this. The change is that nvidia wants branding to be desperate between IHVs, otherwise Nvidia will reduce the support. That is obviously not ideal for AIBs, but it is a far cry form some of the ridiculous nonsense some are people are inventing.

humbug · 15 Mar 2018 at 15:42

D.P. said:
Yes, ASUs can;t sell ROG branded AMD gpus if they sell ROG branded Nvidi9a GPUs. If ASUS just brand Nvidia GPUs with something else then ASUS are free to use ROG for everything else. OR conversely, they use ROG for Nvidia and have a new brand for everything else.

So what you're saying is Asus can call its AMD GPU's ROG but not nVidia and in that way get around it?

Are you serious? before i go on i need to be sure this is what you are saying, so is it?

TheRealDeal · 15 Mar 2018 at 15:43

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I had a RX470 and now have a GTX1080FE now - I downloaded the driver and installed it for both cards.

Both worked fine. The same with every single mate of mine,many of who are not computer enthusiasts - they installed their AMD/Nvidia card with no problems. None of them are teenagers!!

If you have a problem installing a card and downloading a driver and pressing the install button,well the PC is not really a good start,so if you lack time,etc a console just makes more sense.

I have been a PC builder for close to 15 years,and if you had a penny for each time every side has talked up how much better their drivers were,I would be a millionaire,and after owning dozens of ATI/AMD/Nvidia cards and being quite a lazy enthusiast,9.9/10 I have had not an issue with either side.

The only time I have had issues(which have been very rare) is when ATI/AMD/Nvidia push out a driver too quickly before testing and you saw the ATI/AMD/Nvidia driver threads and websites moaning about it.

Edit!!

That does not include the fact Steam and Windows also looks for driver updates too,on top of things like the Geforce Experience and the AMD driver stack.

Second Edit!!

I am talking about single card setups - I only know one person who had dual card setups from AMD/Nvidia and he got fedup with them as more and more games seem to not scale as well anymore.

But as AT said a few years ago,that is due to the consoles.

Couldn't agree more. As long as your card is seated properly and it has the correct power connected then installing drivers should just be a case of downloading and hitting install for both sides. There is nothing hard or complicated in doing this. Once installed i barely ever use the control panel as all the settings i need for gaming are usually in the games themselves.

LoadsaMoney · 15 Mar 2018 at 15:47

humbug · 15 Mar 2018 at 15:53

I think the AMD Driver vs nVidia Driver arguments these days are flawed, i think those who still make the nVidia drivers are better arguments have not used AMD's GPU's for a couple of years because they are now better than nVidia's, especially in the context that a lot of the people who say this think of, nVidia haven't upgraded their UI in about 15 years, its absolutely horrid, check my signature.

D.P. · 15 Mar 2018 at 15:55

humbug said:
So what you're saying is Asus can call its AMD GPU's ROG but not nVidia and in that way get around it?

Are you serious? before i go on i need to be sure this is what you are saying, so is it?

Yes, that is exactly what Nvidia have spelled out. Asus would then need a different brand for Nvidia GPUs.

As Nvidia clearly states, they are not trying to force partners to be exclusively with nvidia, only Nvidia GPUs have an exclusive brand.

D.P. · 15 Mar 2018 at 16:03

LoadsaMoney said:

The 8 minute mark, spot on

Also, seems like it may be the case that ASUS could have ROG branded AMD and ROG branded NVidia cards, but they coudln't use the sub-brand STRIX for both AMD and nvidia.

humbug · 15 Mar 2018 at 16:09

D.P. said:
Yes, that is exactly what Nvidia have spelled out. Asus would then need a different brand for Nvidia GPUs.

As Nvidia clearly states, they are not trying to force partners to be exclusively with nvidia, only Nvidia GPUs have an exclusive brand.

Oh simple lives, wouldn't it be wonderful if we all regressed to more naive times in our lives?
Yes all true, his is what their PR says, it also goes on to say in the same vain that this is all for our benefit. Why thank you nVidia i didn't know you cared so much about me, that's so touching, aww....

If Asus do as you suggest, not sign with the GPP then they will put themselves at a severe competitive disadvantage because they will lose their launch partner status, so no more technical data to prepare for launch day releases, they will lose access to marketing... hell these vendors even told Kyle that they felt nVidia would withhold the better SKU's from them or even delay giving them any, this is those AIB's saying this.

Effectively AIB's have no choice, they are given a choice so nVidia can put that in their PR crap but in effect that choice is so unpalatable none of these AIB's can afford to say no.

james.miller · 15 Mar 2018 at 16:12

D.P keeps ignoring the lose of launch partner status, kick backs and other privileges AIBs lose if they dont sign up when he makes that argument.

humbug · 15 Mar 2018 at 16:24

james.miller said:
D.P keeps ignoring the lose of launch partner status, kick backs and other privileges AIBs lose if they dont sign up when he makes that argument.

I know he does, but hey i don't mind repeating it to him over and over again, it just serves to cement those facts with everyone reading this, this will benefit nVidia which is fine by me, but its at the expense of you, me and DP, not that he cares, nVidia For the Win! not at my expense.

BubbySoup · 15 Mar 2018 at 16:44

D.P. isn't arguing that ASUS not sign up. He is saying if they do sign, they are free to either use the ROG brand exclusively with nVidia and create a new brand for everything else or use the ROG brand for everything else and create a new brand exclusively for nVidia.

At no point is he arguing ASUS do not sign up to the GPP.

bru · 15 Mar 2018 at 16:51

If ASUS decide to sign up the ROG brand then it is ASUS that have made that decision and therefore it is their fault, if they don't then they will still sell a shedload of GPU's and many other bits and pieces under the ROG brand.
All the NVidia strong arm tactics and petty, withdraw launch partner status shenanigans, are irrelevant to a company like ASUS who know they will sell bucket loads regardless of signing up or not.

Now understanding that from NVidia's point of view, every card sold under an NVidia exclusive brand definitely doesn't benefit your competitors, is in its self fairly straight forward. But cards sold under the ROG branding doesn't have the same effect, as every card that uses be it NVidia or AMD boosts recognition of the gaming brand, therefore From NVidia's point of view they, being the market leader, are helping to sell AMD ROG branded cards, which of course isn't good for them.
Of course using ASUS ROG branding in this example is Hypothetical just as it was in Kyles original article.

Bottom line is if enough companies don't like it and don't sign up then NVidia will change things, jut like they did with all the bad press the original black box gameworks features that suddenly got not quite so black box, after the bad press it received.

humbug · 15 Mar 2018 at 16:54

bru said:
If ASUS decide to sign up the ROG brand then it is ASUS that have made that decision and therefore it is their fault, if they don't then they will still sell a shedload of GPU's and many other bits and pieces under the ROG brand.
All the NVidia strong arm tactics and petty, withdraw launch partner status shenanigans, are irrelevant to a company like ASUS who know they will sell bucket loads regardless of signing up or not.

Now understanding that from NVidia's point of view, every card sold under an NVidia exclusive brand definitely doesn't benefit your competitors, is in its self fairly straight forward. But cards sold under the ROG branding doesn't have the same effect, as every card that uses be it NVidia or AMD boosts recognition of the gaming brand, therefore From NVidia's point of view they, being the market leader, are helping to sell AMD ROG branded cards, which of course isn't good for them.
Of course using ASUS ROG branding in this example is Hypothetical just as it was in Kyles original article.

Bottom line is if enough companies don't like it and don't sign up then NVidia will change things, jut like they did with all the bad press the original black box gameworks features that suddenly got not quite so black box, after the bad press it received.

Bru i cannot believe you are saying this with a straight face knowing nVidia's market share is over 80%, Asus would be monumentally stupid to go against the 80+% share holder.

Edit, name edit, sorry.

bru · 15 Mar 2018 at 16:56

humbug said:
Roff i cannot believe you are saying this with a straight face knowing nVidia's market share is over 80%, Asus would be monumentally stupid to go against the 80+% share holder.

And if they do it will be their decision, they don't have to and if enough companies say no then NVida will change tactics, they are not being forced to sign up.

Chuk_Chuk · 15 Mar 2018 at 16:57

bru said:
If ASUS decide to sign up the ROG brand then it is ASUS that have made that decision and therefore it is their fault, if they don't then they will still sell a shedload of GPU's and many other bits and pieces under the ROG brand.
All the NVidia strong arm tactics and petty, withdraw launch partner status shenanigans, are irrelevant to a company like ASUS who know they will sell bucket loads regardless of signing up or not.

You missed out the other benefits

high-effort engineering engagements -- early tech engagement -- launch partner status -- game bundling -- sales rebate programs -- social media and PR support -- marketing reports -- Marketing Development Funds (MDF). MDF is likely the standout in that list of lost benefits if the company is not a GPP partner.

Also

What is disturbing is that we have been told that if a company does not participate in GPP, those companies feel as if NVIDIA would hold back allocation of GPUs from their inventories. From all we have talked to, the issue of not allocating GPU inventories to non-GPP partners have not been spelled out contractually, but is rather done on a wink and a nod.

Also it requires all the big players to turn around and say no, not just one of them

humbug · 15 Mar 2018 at 17:06

bru said:
And if they do it will be their decision, they don't have to and if enough companies say no then NVida will change tactics, they are not being forced to sign up.

That's all well and good in theory but in reality all it takes in one to sign and nVidia have the power to make sure not being on the inner circle will be unpalatable. Actually given that nVidia also have exclusive partners they can already use that power to elevate them above Asus, Gigabyte, MSI...... no matter what nVidia don't lose, they still sell the same number of cards, those vendors have everything to lose.