This 'sugar tax' crap is doing my head in!

Freakbro · 27 Jun 2018 at 07:37

And for all the people complaining about an "Authoritarian" or "Nanny" state that's exactly what was said when the seatbelt law was brought in.

The end result, a major reduction in road traffic injuries and deaths and now no-one thinks twice about the need to wear a seatbelt.

You are also in the minority as polling shows strong support for these sort of "nanny state" interventions, I guess as people realise there is a problem and individual responsibility isn't sorting it out.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...-nanny-state-interventions-poll-37054303.html

PaulCa · 27 Jun 2018 at 07:49

Freakbro said:
The end result, a major reduction in road traffic injuries and deaths and now no-one thinks twice about the need to wear a seatbelt.

Yes and more stupid people survive to breed, so the population goes up and the average intelligence goes down.

Freakbro · 27 Jun 2018 at 07:50

PaulCa said:
Yes and more stupid people survive to breed, so the population goes up and the average intelligence goes down.

Got any empirical evidence for that? :rolleyes:

PaulCa · 27 Jun 2018 at 07:53

Screeeech said:
Well it is really, just about anybody knowledgable in nutrition will tell you that white bread, white rice and white pasta are bad for you in general. Nobody is saying they're going to kill you outright - but they're not good for you, (low in fibre, high in refined carbohydrates and in some cases added sugar)

The amount of white rice and refined grains being consumed has gone up drastically in the west over the last few decades, which also coincides with the amount of takeaways and fast food that we eat now - hardly any of which existed pre 1980, compared to the numbers today.

The amount of bread per household has been falling overall.
https://www.statista.com/statistics...onsumption-of-bread-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

The amount of white bread per household has been falling.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/284461/weekly-uk-household-consumption-of-white-bread/

White bread is pretty much never consumed alone. In fact it's highest use is in sandwiches which are specifically designed to include many food groups together. So if you have a bit of meat a bit of veg and a bit of dairy it's a balanced meal which includes fibre.

PaulCa · 27 Jun 2018 at 07:54

Freakbro said:
Got any empirical evidence for that?

TV.

There are also some reports suggesting it is true:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/educati...than-their-counterparts-did-30-years-ago.html

However I don't hold intelligence tests very highly. I just look at the world around me and what people seem attracted so and what marketing people push to them and how. It's clear that being "clever" has been in decline. I think this is a two way thing though, marketing want people to be less critical thinking and more gulable and accepting of merit less non-sense and it's easier to sell to them if they don't ask questions.

Freakbro · 27 Jun 2018 at 07:57

So no then

I find it hard to accept a correlation between reducing RT injuries and deaths and a reduction in IQ of the population...

Tefal · 27 Jun 2018 at 08:00

PaulCa said:
Yes and more stupid people survive to breed, so the population goes up and the average intelligence goes down.

Well except that average intelligence goes up roughly 3 points a decade.

Freakbro · 27 Jun 2018 at 08:02

Tefal said:
Well except that average intelligence goes up roughly 3 points a decade.

Except in the UK it seems!

Though according to that article they think that's more to do with the reduction in reading over computer gaming and youth culture, rather than not wearing a seatbelt...

Tefal · 27 Jun 2018 at 08:02

I'd have thought its highest use was as toast tbh?

Tefal · 27 Jun 2018 at 08:05

Freakbro said:
Except in the UK it seems!

Though according to that article they think that's more to do with the reduction in reading over computer gaming and youth culture, rather than not wearing a seatbelt...

Aren't iq tests based on visual reasoning skills most of the time with no words beyond "x is to z as y is to" or "what comes next in the sequence" ?

I wonder how you factor out the fact that teenagers are a fairly poorly motivated group and may not put much effort into an utterly meaningless test?

Freakbro · 27 Jun 2018 at 08:08

Tefal said:
Aren't iq tests based on visual reasoning skills most of the time with no words beyond "x is to z as y is to" or "what comes next in the sequence" ?

I wonder how you factor out the fact that teenagers are a fairly poorly motivated group and may not put much effort into an utterly meaningless test?

Then you could say that for every generation of teenagers and the drop off is still significant?

Tefal · 27 Jun 2018 at 08:11

Freakbro said:
Then you could say that for every generation of teenagers and the drop off is still significant?

Perhaps they are simply the first generation of teenagers that were smart enough to realise it was pointless and not bother?

Freakbro · 27 Jun 2018 at 08:16

PlacidCasual · 27 Jun 2018 at 09:24

Tefal said:
Well except that average intelligence goes up roughly 3 points a decade.

There is a hypothesis that genetically we are less smart and less strong than our hunter gatherer ancestors because for the last 4,00-6,000 years the main survival selection criteria has been tolerance to disease associated with civilised living rather than capacity to survive in wild environment. I don't know what if any evidence exists to support the assertion, although I think it has a feel of veracity to it. It obviously ignores the developmental improvement in human condition that comes as consequence of better diet which allows us to grow bigger (and hence stronger) unconstrained by dietary restrictions.

In the US there are also some claims regarding selection attributes of partners that correlate with IQ which suggests an increasing trend for IQ streaming within the population. College graduates tend to marry college graduates, IQ is believed to have high genetic component.

So it will be interesting to see if the IQ trend is a temporary thing that will reverse.

Felon · 27 Jun 2018 at 09:52

PaulCa said:
The amount of bread per household has been falling overall.
https://www.statista.com/statistics...onsumption-of-bread-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

The amount of white bread per household has been falling.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/284461/weekly-uk-household-consumption-of-white-bread/

I didn't say that the consumption of white bread has increased, I said that the amount of refined grains we consume has gone up since the 1980s, (which is when the obesity and metabolic disease epidemic started)

Refined grains are found in most; Pizza, Donuts, Cakes, Cookies, Pies, Burgers, White Rice, White Bread, Battered meat (KFC, Fish and Chips) Cereals (some are worse than chocolate), White pasta, Noodles, Bagels, Crackers, Pancakes, Waffles, Muffins,

The consumption of most of the above has skyrocketed. Speak to anybody who's aged 60 or older and all of them will tell you, that many of the things in the above list practically didn't exist in the UK until after the 1980s, and what did exist was in fractional quantities compared to today, with the exception of a few (White Bread, Cakes, Pies, Fish and Chips) The rest was hardly there at all until far more recently. Now every single supermarket is absolutely saturated with everything in that list, buy one get one free - practically throwing the stuff at you, and it's all bad.

PaulCa · 27 Jun 2018 at 12:46

I don't want to live in your world Screeeech. I'll leave it at that.

Tefal · 27 Jun 2018 at 19:36

PlacidCasual said:
There is a hypothesis that genetically we are less smart and less strong than our hunter gatherer ancestors because for the last 4,00-6,000 years the main survival selection criteria has been tolerance to disease associated with civilised living rather than capacity to survive in wild environment. I .

Thst seems a very dodgy theory as survival in the wild can be achieved with minimal intelligence.

jpaul · 27 Jun 2018 at 20:54

remember, that despite the refined grains and increased intelligence most of our european colleagues are not suffering from obesity epidemic,
... maybe its Gove's & Co's fault with the education system,

but, moreover, as announced recently is the ultra-refined foods that are the smoking (correlated) gun
.... so why are we eating that junk ?

BTW ... what can you drink in pub's these days other than soft-drink junk (or equally sugar filled fruit juice) if you are the designated driver. ?

Guest2 · 27 Jun 2018 at 20:56

Why can't the original proper sugar strength drinks still be sold like coca cola still is? (at a higher price)
I hardly ever drink sugary drinks but when I do have something like a Lucozade energy after a tough exercise session, I want it to provide the sugar/glucose kick. Instead I got one the other day and it was just like Lucozade flavoured water! I checked and sure the original Lucozade was around 29g of sugar whereas its now 11g. I put it down to the benefit scum generations of families bulk buying the bit 2 litre bottles of fizzy drinks then getting diabetes a few years later and costing the NHS a load of money that they have never contributed anything towards.

Guest2 · 27 Jun 2018 at 21:00

jpaul said:
BTW ... what can you drink in pub's these days other than soft-drink junk (or equally sugar filled fruit juice) if you are the designated driver. ?

A pint of soda water with ice and fresh lime is always my choice. Its also free!

Tomato juice, virgin bloody mary, virgin any cocktail