I think once the Pascal cards sell out you will see price reductions on the Turing cards. I am only guessing but I think when the Pascal cards are gone, the 2070 will drop down into the price point the 1080 currently is (400-600) The 2080 will replace the 1080ti price point (600-850) and the 2080ti will be available for under £1000.
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Is the NVidia RTX performance even worse than previously reported?
- Thread starter Flake87
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I think once the Pascal cards sell out you will see price reductions on the Turing cards. I am only guessing but I think when the Pascal cards are gone, the 2070 will drop down into the price point the 1080 currently is (400-600) The 2080 will replace the 1080ti price point (600-850) and the 2080ti will be available for under £1000.
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Heroic AMD will be along next year to save us from the evil price gougers nvidia with their £500 7nm card which beats the 2080Ti.
I think Nvidia have been caught out somewhat with a touch of avarice following on from the last GPU mining boom.
I don't think they could beleive their luck (much like AMD as well to be fair) that they could maintain such high sales of quite aged product lines for so long after their respective launches
.. Struggling to provide a particularly meaningful upgrade in performance using the traditional method of just adding more CUDA cores and upping frequencies on a not much improved node from last gen (particularly when looking at the incoming xx80 card vs the incumbent xx80ti card) they saw an opportunity to try and introduce whole new tiers of increased pricing for their current mainstream lines by strapping on some extra functionality in the form of RTX cores and charging the early adopters a hefty premimum for it as thier 10 series cards were still selling consistently for above launch/ msrp prices.
But then the GPU mining craze subsided and Nvidia were left competing against themselves and stuck in an awkward position where there 10 series cards offered a more compelling price/ performance proposition and the 2070 and 2080 cards just could not put enough, if any, space between themselves and the 1080ti to justify their existence short of promising some potential future gains in some scenarios but whilst coming with the issue of a reduced vram complement.
I don't think they could beleive their luck (much like AMD as well to be fair) that they could maintain such high sales of quite aged product lines for so long after their respective launches
.. Struggling to provide a particularly meaningful upgrade in performance using the traditional method of just adding more CUDA cores and upping frequencies on a not much improved node from last gen (particularly when looking at the incoming xx80 card vs the incumbent xx80ti card) they saw an opportunity to try and introduce whole new tiers of increased pricing for their current mainstream lines by strapping on some extra functionality in the form of RTX cores and charging the early adopters a hefty premimum for it as thier 10 series cards were still selling consistently for above launch/ msrp prices.
But then the GPU mining craze subsided and Nvidia were left competing against themselves and stuck in an awkward position where there 10 series cards offered a more compelling price/ performance proposition and the 2070 and 2080 cards just could not put enough, if any, space between themselves and the 1080ti to justify their existence short of promising some potential future gains in some scenarios but whilst coming with the issue of a reduced vram complement.
And then we all woke up!
AMD on 7nm won't be competitive with the 1080ti let alone the 20xx series unfortunately
It sucks as I'm going to buy a Vega 64 soon and will trade up for 7nm Vega when it comes but I fully expect the 7nm Vega to still be short of the 1080ti performance, still probably consume more power and have to wait for AIB coolers because AMD stock coolers are so rubbish.
AMD simply are not interested in trying to compete at the high end and nothing indicates that is likely to change anytime soon.
Normally by now you expect to hear rumors and murmurs of new high end product, all we've heard is Enterprise Vega and Navi is designed for low to mid range.
AMD may never compete again at the high-end quite frankly, they make enough cash now from their CPU division and custom designs for consoles etc, I'd be surprised if they ever bother again trying to beat anything higher than Nvidias xx70 segment.
It sucks but they will need to keep their focus now on the CPU market to keep the pressure on Intel and should they take decent marketshare they will need to maintain that focus to keep that share.
The writing was on the wall since Hawaii, Fiji was the first step in them admitting defeat in the GPU high end segment, Polaris has worked well for them in the low end, Vega was confirmation that they just cannot compete in the high end market anymore.
If AMD was serious about the high end gaming market we would know about it by now.
Look at Lisa Su's recent interviews, she always talks about CPUs and enterprise first, any mention of GPU is always enterprise, and the last thing she says is gaming GPUs.
Companies focus is to take share in the high earning brackets, unfortunately enthusiast GPUs are at the bottom of their earning revenue, and likely to stay there for a good while, potentially forever.
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Couple of guys at work today asked me about my opinion on the new Nvidia cards, I said they were over priced, they both agreed and actually said they are going back to consoles as you get more for your money.
They both have 1080's and pre built PC's, and mainly play WoW, and said the pc is fine for wow but if they want to play other stuff they are sticking with their ps4s as pc component's prices are ridiculous now.
Have to say I agree
And then we all woke up!
AMD on 7nm won't be competitive with the 1080ti let alone the 20xx series unfortunately
AMD may never compete again at the high-end quite frankly, they make enough cash now from their CPU division and custom designs for consoles etc, I'd be surprised if they ever bother again trying to beat anything higher than Nvidias xx70 segment.
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Think a few said so with their CPU along the way also.
Cant fix things fast when its hardware and design but they have the 7nm in the pipeline.
I suspect we will have some info soon about those cards.
I just want a 300euro 1080 performance card and I am set.
Can amd deliver that...they be fine since 80% of all cards sells under 500 euro.
Hard to argue against, I bought a ps4 pro and the psvr kit with abut 10 games some second hand and the cost was about the same as a 2080, I think long term I will have a better gaming experience all round
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this makes no sense, there's actually very little you can't play on a 1080 that wouldn't look worse on a console, I can understand someone saying they have like a radeon 290 or GTX970 and were considering switching to console, but someone with a 1080 already has something better than a console and they don't actually "need" a new card to play 1080p/60 or 4k/30 which is all you are going to get out of a console
its like someone saying "I don't like the pricing on the new RS6 so I'm going to keep my S3 and buy a ford fiesta"
If you're going to make up a "my mates have all gone console" story, at least try to make it believable.
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this makes no sense, there's actually very little you can't play on a 1080 that wouldn't look worse on a console, I can understand someone saying they have like a radeon 290 or GTX970 and were considering switching to console, but someone with a 1080 already has something better than a console and they don't actually "need" a new card to play 1080p/60 or 4k/30 which is all you are going to get out of a console
its like someone saying "I don't like the pricing on the new RS6 so I'm going to keep my S3 and buy a ford fiesta"
If you're going to make up a "my mates have all gone console" story, at least try to make it believable.
But the point is, they believe they need to upgrade each generation, they was talking about the new Nvidia cards a few weeks ago.
I've told them their 1080s are fine, both have FE blowers, both have 7700 non Ks which I laughed at when they bought them, especially after they both asked me to put a build togerhto and then on a whim went to a high street store and bought rubbish pre builds.
These are ordinary working class guys who wanted to play world of Warcraft and little else, so went and dumped £1700 each or something stupid on a badly specced PC each.
So they read a lot of wow forums and all the guys there recommend Nvidia cards and how great the new stuff will be etc, and these 2 guys bought into that.
So I was kinda impressed when they suddenly said that pc gaming is too expensive, as far as they are concerned improving their gaming performance means swapping the GPU only, and balled at the price of the upgrade as it's half their pc cost pretty much, so decided to go back to playing cod and FIFA on PS4 and keep wow as it is on PC.
My point basically was even causal gamers who have been indoctrinated into believing Nvidia can do no wrong are now saying enough is enough.
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I don't buy it, sorry. I don't believe anyone spends £1700 JUST to play WoW and then immediately go "back to playing CoD and Fifa". Nothing about this story adds up. If they are "going back" then that means they already had consoles and if all they play on PC is WoW then they were never target audience for a 2080/ti. You can't claim someone represents a lost sale and then describe them as complete idiots who struggle to tie their own shoelaces and have to write "breathe in" and "breathe out" on their left and right hands lest they forget.
Could not agree more and very well put.
This would be a downgrade for them and makes no sense at all. Why would you grab a console when they already have a far superior gaming experience on their current PC? Advise your friends to do some research and stop being wet!
I agree. I noticed a few comments like this lately, 2000s series comes out at high prices then a share of PC gamers come out acting like their 1070s / 1080s rigs are suddenly obsolete and can't play the latest games.
I own ps4 pro and it never gets a look in. The last exclusive I played from start to end was the last of us remastered. Tried God of War and couldn't get into that so I gave it to my bro. Spiderman is retread of Arkham Knight in a new skin. Regardless of these games I always go back to my pc. Just a better all round experience.
Only console that has impressed me is the Switch. Xbox had no games apart from Forza which you can now play on PC. No doubt Halo collection will turn up at some point.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveal...-performance-features-and-price/#288f8f3735e3
More financial analysis, but basically the message stays the same, that the 2080 is not much faster on older games, and the new features are simple not available in enough new games yet to provide media which takes advantage of the new tech. The message is that buyers should wait until the technology matures before parting with the hard earned.
More financial analysis, but basically the message stays the same, that the 2080 is not much faster on older games, and the new features are simple not available in enough new games yet to provide media which takes advantage of the new tech. The message is that buyers should wait until the technology matures before parting with the hard earned.
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The new series cards are a joke in price/performance, pure and simple. You'd have to be an insane fanboy to argue otherwise. Happy with my 980Ti since it's basically a 1070, and will be sticking with it a while longer and doing me good at 1440p.
Nvidia can take their Apple stance and shove it up their backside
lets see what happens next year. At least things will get a lot more interesting on the CPU front if nothing else.
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I highly disagree. Look at AMDs strategy - they're waiting for companies to become complacent, before they announce products that dominate. This causes the company to panic and release half baked products to try and compete, and bit by bit, AMD eat into the market share.
Ryzen did this - instead of just using hype, they've used the bad press for the competing brand to launch a product. Look at their enterprise sector, and prosumer/professional Threadripper stuff.
They're timing their product releases incredibly well, and I imagine they'll do the same with the RTX launch. When Pascal launched, the performance lift was pretty immense, especially for the price, and AMD knew they wouldn't be able to compete straight away.
I'm not saying they're the best product at all, but they are timing their launch in such a way that gets customers interested in them.
And also, before anyone inevitably says it, I'm not an AMD fanboy
I haven't used an AMD product since the 7850. But I do appreciate their business model and strategy.
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I highly disagree. Look at AMDs strategy - they're waiting for companies to become complacent, before they announce products that dominate. This causes the company to panic and release half baked products to try and compete, and bit by bit, AMD eat into the market share.
Ryzen did this - instead of just using hype, they've used the bad press for the competing brand to launch a product. Look at their enterprise sector, and prosumer/professional Threadripper stuff.
They're timing their product releases incredibly well, and I imagine they'll do the same with the RTX launch. When Pascal launched, the performance lift was pretty immense, especially for the price, and AMD knew they wouldn't be able to compete straight away.
I'm not saying they're the best product at all, but they are timing their launch in such a way that gets customers interested in them.
And also, before anyone inevitably says it, I'm not an AMD fanboy
The problem with that line if thinking is that AMD's competitor in the CPU space is intel, who have had major problems with their 10nm node coming online. AMD's partners have had more luck but at some point intel are going to hit their targets and AMD's competetive advantage will be gone. In the GPU space AMD's same process products lag behind the competition and nvidia bave access to the same nodes that AMD does so again even if AMD do get 7nm products put first, they aren't going to be cheap and nvidia will most likely be not too long behind them, so the competitive landscape is completely different to what they are enjoying on CPU's right now.
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True, they'll catch up, but by which time AMD will have the user base, and in the enterprise world, it's very rare people switch stuff out. Once AMD has taken hold of that user base, I think they're unlikely to leave. This gives AMD the opportunity to keep developing, and produce something that competes with Intel when on equal footing.
I think the same will happen in the GPU space. Nvidia will catch up, but again, I think it'll give AMD enough time to work on stuff in the background. Remember, AMD don't need to be better than Nvidia at the moment, they just need to be as good, but cheaper.