Soldato
Lol, the other team principals will be adding zeros to the cheques they want to give him.If he loses his **** that much when a race win is at stake, what's going to happen when things go wrong whilst he's in a tight title race?
Poll: Brazilian Prix 2018, São Paulo - Race 20/21
- Thread starter Shimmy
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You'd be surprised how fast the shine can come off a driver who keeps failing to deliver wins. It won't be the first time we see the shine fade off the latest wunderkind, only for everyone to suddenly be interested in the new up and coming drivers. If he doesn't get his temper under control and start delivering wins and championships, it won't take long for Max to be seen as a liability rather than an asset.
Sure, he can point the finger at Ocon, but everyone knows that the race was Max's to lose, that a number of other drivers would have brought that car home for the win, that in the end it was Max who put himself in a place where he lost out - something he does again and again. Max still has to learn that the result is more important than making a point about who's in charge of that piece of track. We've seen Max time and again cut his nose off to spite his face, and that's the action of a child, not a seasoned driver who knows how to get the win and maximise the points no matter what.
Max has had a couple of years to show he can learn and get better, but it's not showing in the results and his driving. He's doing a Vettel and continuing to make the same mistakes over and over, instead of getting better every year like Hamilton has.
Soldato
It took Hamilton a long time to mature into the driver he is today, and arguably that didn't happen until perhaps his last year at McLaren or maybe his first year at Mercedes. Verstappen has time on his side and, for what it is worth, I think he's already made sufficient progress to demonstrate that he's more than capable.
And lol at the thought that Verstappen's behaviour makes his value as a driver increase. It might help sell some cans of caffeine to underage children but it won't impress those who are more interested in where and whether the car finishes.
And lol at the thought that Verstappen's behaviour makes his value as a driver increase. It might help sell some cans of caffeine to underage children but it won't impress those who are more interested in where and whether the car finishes.
Caporegime
He has time, and he has improved. However, the thing that worries me about Max is that even after the fact he never shows any awareness of his own mistakes. You cannot learn without acknowledging what you did wrong.
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Deleted member 651465
That's because he's the most arrogant driver on the grid. He's approaching Massa levels of denial in so much as I don't think has ever admitted fault 
Exactly. Even if you were totally not at fault, you have to say "what could I have done so that accident didn't happen?". Even Hamilton having issues on the first laps, instead of blaming other drivers (even when they were at fault) his attitude was "I'm going to qualify first so that I'm not there to have someone drive into me in the first place". There's no point blaming the other guy if you still end up out of the race. Max has to learn there are times when you have to give a little here and there to gain more later on ie which battles to lose so that you can still win the war.
Max might win the odd race, but he's never going to win championships if he continues to blame everyone else when he makes a mistake (and he's been making a lot of them). He may be fast, but while he's throwing away opportunities, that expensive paycheck is going to demand results sooner rather than later.
Max was the same with the Bottas incident in Italy, just had completely blind arrogance to making the mistake and didn't and hasn't realised you don't have to win every battles to win the war. That situation was actually worse as he would have lost the support from some of the team members which without them he won't win a thing, and suspect he'll be the Red Bull poster boy for years to come, this seems to be an area Hamilton has really developed in the past couple of years realising that it's the whole team that need to be on side and obviously the more he can get them to put in the more he will get out.
Part of me really wants Leclerc to show Verstappen up over the coming years. Verstappen's attitude and comments this year all allude to him thinking he's entitled to future F1 world championships. He needs bringing back into line, but considering Horner's comments it doesn't seem like Red Bull are going to.
Soldato
He's like the bad aspects of MS and Senna combined. Hell of a driver when he's on it, but needs the intelligence of someone like Prost to be anything formidable.
He can be as much of a prat as he wants though. He's the cat amongst the pigeons and it's exciting to watch IMO, makes the sport interesting having some characters throwing themselves into it.
He can be as much of a prat as he wants though. He's the cat amongst the pigeons and it's exciting to watch IMO, makes the sport interesting having some characters throwing themselves into it.
Soldato
If he loses his **** that much when a race win is at stake, what's going to happen when things go wrong whilst he's in a tight title race?
I think his inner Joss will creep through even more, we got to see just a little bit of it this weekend, I hope he doesn't go down the route his dad has but growing up in that environment will have rubbed off on him.
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Max fits into the red bull team well.
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It's entertaining, I think we should Encourage any sort of drama..........f1 needs more excitement.
But i do agree, max is an exceptionally good driver but either has an attitude problem or simply need to grow up a lot.
But i do agree, max is an exceptionally good driver but either has an attitude problem or simply need to grow up a lot.
I personally cannot stand him. I used to like him but ever since the Webber/Vettel days I've never liked Horner's attitude. Ross Brawn is so much more professional than him.
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Just watched the full on-board of Ocon from the time he came in to pit until the time of the incident, it also had the radio from Verstapphen and Ocon included. Ocon's team told him he could pass Ver if he wanted. Furthermore, Ver's radio meant Max knew that Ocon was on a fast tyre and he was pushing. In this light it is nothing more than a racing incident and the stewards penalising Ocon is a disgrace.
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https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2..._the_laps_leading_up_to_Verstappen_clash.html
Interesting perspective. The speed at which Ocon approached, he was then ahead, Max knew he had been gaining. Silly to not just let him go or at least give him space. I take it back, Ocon should not have had a penalty for that. Just goes to show, perspective is important.
Interesting perspective. The speed at which Ocon approached, he was then ahead, Max knew he had been gaining. Silly to not just let him go or at least give him space. I take it back, Ocon should not have had a penalty for that. Just goes to show, perspective is important.
Caporegime
I still think Ocon deserved a penalty - as a backmarker you can't compromise the leader - but a 10s S&G was harsh. Under other circumstances that's entirely Max's fault.
Soldato
Ocon deserved the penalty, but Max was also dumb to put himself in that position. He should have just let Ocon go in to T1. He'd have lost maybe 0.3s to Hamilton, but he was gapping him anyway. Instead he went offline to defend in to T1, so lost time there, then had the accident and lost 10-15 seconds recovering. As has been said many times already in this thread and other places, Max just cannot see the bigger picture when fighting for position. Maybe it's inexperience, maybe it's intelligence. Whatever it is, he needs to address it himself if he wants to have a realistic chance of winning a WDC.
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Deleted member 651465
I agree.
1) Ocon was on the faster tyre.
2) Max was told Ocon was coming up behind.
3) Max chose to defend the racing line in to T1
4) Ocon went for the outside line T1, to give himself position for T2
5) Max refused to yield the position and expected Ocon to vanish on the apex of T2
6) They collided and both were damaged
Frankly, I’m not sure why they threw the book at Ocon when he was trying to unlap himself. I put the blame on Max for being a twonk when he easily could have left Ocon past and won the race.
In fact, if he’d left him passed there Max would have got the second DRS on the next straight and probably passed him, if that’s what he wanted.
I actually believe if it wasn’t for them unlapping and they were on the same lap it would have been viewed as a racing incident!
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I agree completely. Hamilton was right when he told Max he had everything to lose and Ocon nothing.
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Having the different tyre compounds was meant to mix up the racing so sometimes a slow car is faster than a fast car... People complain that cars aren't pushing 100% but then expect Ocon to just tuck in behind Max and compromise his own race... The fact that Max was race leader is neither here nor there and does not stop this being a racing incident which it clearly was. I'm pretty sure many years ago there was a situation where Vettel was leading a race and Hamilton was able to unlap himself as he was faster at the time... Guess what? Vettel didn't attempt to fight or defend and let him by ultra carefully.