Shouldn't laptops be taking over now?

[MiSJAH]

also, how much did you pay for the previous laptop. quite interested to know.

You wouldn't believe me if I told you. They were retailing at £2,250.

(Just to add some context I paid ~£390 for a brand new MSI GT73 7RF that I sold on ebay a week later for £2,550. Some seriously extenuating circumstances allowed this to happen).


And that reseller as demonstrated previously is ridiculously overpriced. The UK system integrator do not list their MXM GPU prices online but are roughly 20% lower costs including VAT.

 

[tamzzy]

You wouldn't believe me if I told you. They were retailing at £2,250.

ah. that's about where i recalled it to be. was looking at an alienware 15 r3 before i went on holiday to the usa. ended up getting a 1080ti as an upgrade instead. lol
it's silly how prices fluctuate so much in usa. got my 1080ti for £570. when it's cheap, it's dirt cheap (comparatively), when it's expensive...hell...it'll cost an arm and leg

The UK system integrator do not list their MXM GPU prices online but are roughly 20% lower costs including VAT.

 

[MiSJAH]

ah. that's about where i recalled it to be. was looking at an alienware 15 r3 before i went on holiday to the usa. ended up getting a 1080ti as an upgrade instead. lol

Tell me you bought in the US for dollars on the pound price.

 

[tamzzy]

Tell me you bought in the US for dollars on the pound price.

yep!
was an edit you just missed:

it's silly how prices fluctuate so much in usa. got my 1080ti for £570. when it's cheap, it's dirt cheap (comparatively), when it's expensive...hell...it'll cost an arm and leg

 

[MiSJAH]

Agreed.

UK seller of MXM 1070 - £350.

MXM GTX 980M used still fetch around £300.

For some reason MXM cards do not lose value.

 

[tamzzy]

(Just to add some context I paid ~£390 for a brand new MSI GT73 7RF that I sold on ebay a week later for £2,550. Some seriously extenuating circumstances allowed this to happen).

lol. deal of the century!

For some reason MXM cards do not lose value.

guessing it's due to physical incompatibilities on the part of nvidia (smart but sneaky i guess), so the top end cards keep their value once EOL and parts start to fail.
same like all the top end, last in the socket intel boards (z77, z97, z270, z390) and processors (3770k, 4790k, 7700k) don't tend to drop in price much.

 

[MiSJAH]

lol. deal of the century!

Yeah, the deal on the AORUS was spectacular also.

guessing it's due to physical incompatibilities on the part of nvidia (smart but sneaky i guess), so the top end cards keep their value once EOL and parts start to fail.
same like all the top end, last in the socket intel boards (z77, z97, z270, z390) and processors (3770k, 4790k, 7700k) don't tend to drop in price much.

Nvidia only make the GPUs not the cards, the manufacturers make the MXM boards.

 

[tamzzy]

Yeah, the deal on the AORUS was spectacular also.

indeed. easily by a few hundred.

Nvidia only make the GPUs not the cards, the manufacturers make the MXM boards.

oh ouch. definitely needs some standardisation!
if they can do it for desktops, it's only greed stopping them doing for DTR laptops... :/

 

[MiSJAH]

if they can do it for desktops, it's only greed stopping them doing for DTR laptops... :/

Tell me about it - https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...is-sold-gt72-gt80-with-mxm-graphics.18746748/

 

[tamzzy]

hopefully MSI gets their butt kicked in the courts

 

[MiSJAH]

I hope so, not only did they let down customers but they made resellers look bad using their promotional material.

 

[EsaT]

I simply presented a notebook that is capable of taking on all except the most extreme of desktops.

What notebook?
There hasn't been a single laptop/notebook presented which can actually match desktop.

Clevo type machines are stone sleds and already their AC adapters weight same as real laptop/notebook.
And if huge bulk and weight are discarded, they're barely more usable without wall socket than those luggable computers of early PC era.

The same disadvantages remain as with nearly all Eurocom notebooks we've tested. The very dense performance profile entails loud fan noise (54 dB(A)), very warm core temperatures (>85 C), heavy weight (5.6 kg), and a short battery life that may as well be measured in minutes.​

Have you not heard of liquid metal, undervolting, overclocking?


It ain't 2003 no more. This tech has moved on since your old fashioned ideas were common.

Liquid metal does nothing to laws of the physics and the need to dissipate that heat into air.
They aren't even automatically that much better:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-comparison,5108-9.html

And that physics tells those desktop replacement "laptops" are highly unlikely to be as durable as desktop PCs with pretty much everything running hot inside those cramped covers.

Neither undervolting or overclocking change anything.
Just like proliferation of heatpipes changes nothing, because they've been utilized even more in desktop PCs to heavily increase cooling performance, while keeping noise under control.
Everything that can be used to tweak performance in "laptops" can be done more than equally well in desktop PCs.


Only thing which has changed since 2003 is amount of marketing BS around computers having increased by magnitudes.
Since PCs turned from machines of more or less knowledgeable enthusiasts and hobbyers to commodity toys of everyone and their pet dogs getting their education from butt end of marketing,

Just like what one company hyping "liquid metal coolers" once tried to utilize.
Before ending to quietly disappearing after (not so much marketed) failure to even match cheaper high end heatpipe coolers in cooling per noise.

the single NVMe for 2 x 500 for RAID 0

SSD RAID 0 is basically another marketing hype scam and only thing it guaranteedly achieves is doubled probability for losing data to drive failure.
With HDDs having for long time very low transfer rates striping gave actual real world performance improvement, but now it's meaningless.
High synthetic benchmarketing numbers of NVMe SSDs gives them very little real world performance over SATA signaled SSDs in Windows or game loading times.

 

[MiSJAH]

What notebook?
There hasn't been a single laptop/notebook presented which can actually match desktop.

Clevo type machines are stone sleds and already their AC adapters weight same as real laptop/notebook.
And if huge bulk and weight are discarded, they're barely more usable without wall socket than those luggable computers of early PC era.

The same disadvantages remain as with nearly all Eurocom notebooks we've tested. The very dense performance profile entails loud fan noise (54 dB(A)), very warm core temperatures (>85 C), heavy weight (5.6 kg), and a short battery life that may as well be measured in minutes.​

Liquid metal does nothing to laws of the physics and the need to dissipate that heat into air.
They aren't even automatically that much better:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-comparison,5108-9.html

And that physics tells those desktop replacement "laptops" are highly unlikely to be as durable as desktop PCs with pretty much everything running hot inside those cramped covers.

Neither undervolting or overclocking change anything.
Just like proliferation of heatpipes changes nothing, because they've been utilized even more in desktop PCs to heavily increase cooling performance, while keeping noise under control.
Everything that can be used to tweak performance in "laptops" can be done more than equally well in desktop PCs.


Only thing which has changed since 2003 is amount of marketing BS around computers having increased by magnitudes.
Since PCs turned from machines of more or less knowledgeable enthusiasts and hobbyers to commodity toys of everyone and their pet dogs getting their education from butt end of marketing,

Just like what one company hyping "liquid metal coolers" once tried to utilize.
Before ending to quietly disappearing after (not so much marketed) failure to even match cheaper high end heatpipe coolers in cooling per noise.

Thank you for sharing your opinion much as it is fascinating basing it on evidence is preferable. Also, I suggest you look in to some applications of liquid metal and it's achievements.

SSD RAID 0 is basically another marketing hype scam and only thing it guaranteedly achieves is doubled probability for losing data to drive failure.
With HDDs having for long time very low transfer rates striping gave actual real world performance improvement, but now it's meaningless.
High synthetic benchmarketing numbers of NVMe SSDs gives them very little real world performance over SATA signaled SSDs in Windows or game loading times.

At last something we agree. But what the hell, let's do it for the benchmarks. All data is backed up to an external 5TB HDD, then off cited to a work SAN. Although to be fair, it a gaming machine, so I don't really give a toss.

Once again, thank you for sharing your ill-informed opinion.

Which notebook do you own?

 

[james.miller]

I still dont understand why a PC needs a UPS to be compared to a laptop desktop replacement. The question was should these machines be replacing desktops, not the other way around - it doesnt matter a toss if a PC has a UPS or not.

 

[MiSJAH]

I still dont understand why a PC needs a UPS to be compared to a laptop desktop replacement. The question was should these machines be replacing desktops, not the other way around - it doesnt matter a toss if a PC has a UPS or not.

For a desktop to match the specs of a laptop it requires a UPS.

The question was "Shouldn't laptops be taking over now?"

What followed was dialogue weighing the comparisons between the two, in effort to establish if laptops should indeed be taking over.

 

[Rroff]

I still dont understand why a PC needs a UPS to be compared to a laptop desktop replacement. The question was should these machines be replacing desktops, not the other way around - it doesnt matter a toss if a PC has a UPS or not.

I guess it depends what your goal is but when I had a desktop replacement laptop it was for the portability factor and not requiring a larger amount of space to setup in. Power failover, etc. considerations were not really a consideration just a nice bonus. For people with intermittent electricity, etc. it might be a bigger factor.

 

[james.miller]

The question was should laptops be taking precedent, so it needs to be shown that laptops match desktops, not the other way around. All this UPS discussion is nonsense because you dont need a UPS for a desktop and insisting a UPS be added to any PC spec only servers to make expensive desktop replacements look better value than they really are. even IF a UPS was required, UPSs are not the sort of equipment you toss and replace every time you upgrade. Insisting you need a new UPS is like insisting you need a new Desk.

 

[MiSJAH]

The question was should laptops be taking precedent, so it needs to be shown that laptops match desktops, not the other way around. All this UPS discussion is nonsense because you dont need a UPS for a desktop and insisting a UPS be added to any PC spec only servers to make expensive desktop replacements look better value than they really are. even IF a UPS was required, UPSs are the sort of equipment you toss and replace every time you upgrade.

 

[james.miller]

should we now start to see laptops take precedent over desktops?

I'll take the text in the OP over the title.

 

[MiSJAH]

I'll take the text in the OP over the title.

I would leave that to the op, rather than make assumptions.