Homophobic attack on two women on London bus.

[Screeeech]

I don't think they picked them out rather than they just happened to be there. Wrong place at the wrong time. Chances are they wanted to wind them up. When they didn't play along they then attacked them. It's likely one of them didn't help the situation by saying something back and they didn't like it and it then escalated from there.

That's conjecture on your part.

Also, claiming 'wrong place at the wrong time' will not be a sufficient defence in court on the part of the defendants, nor will 'the victims just so happened to be gay and it turned out to be an accidental mishap on behalf of the defendants' or words to that effect.

Scrotes will target you and use anything against you. If it was a Jewish couple that got attacked and they told him to eat some bacon, etc. I wouldn't call it a anti-semetic attack. They just used what they knew against them on a whim.

That's because you don't understand the law.

If you assault a Jew/Muslim/Hindu/Black, and during in the assault you resort to throwing racial insults, or perform acts of racial hatred on them - that would be a significant aggravating factor, and would almost certainly result in more severe penalties being applied.

I don't believe this gang went out looking for a gay couple to attack. They probably saw 2 women who were a couple and then wanted to get their jollies off on making them kiss, then touch each other, etc. When they got some chat back they then started on them is how this likely panned out.

You don't have to go out and walk the streets all night searching for gays for it to be considered a homophobic hate crime.

The allegation that they were singled out on the bus because they were gay, then had homophobic abuse thrown at them - followed by a physical assault, gets it across the line as a homophobic hate crime, if the allegations are to be believed, and at this time I see no reason why they wouldn't be believed.

If the reports are correct. If the reports are correct. If the reports are correct. All assumptions at this point. At this point all of the information for these reports seemingly comes from the victims who unfortunately can be incredibly unreliable and almost certainly biased - this is likely to be one of the reasons the police were appealing for additional information.
We're assuming the crimes that have been committed based on the victims analysis. We need to work on an independent analysis.

Ok so it seems your position is that you're casting doubt on the allegations made by the victims, that it was a homophobic hate crime.

Look at this picture for a moment and put yourself in the shoes on a Jury;






Which do you think is the most likely explanation?

1.> Two women out on a date together, perhaps in love, get seen by a gang and instantly get homophobic abuse shouted at them, followed by explicit requests, it gets out of hand and a physical assault occurs.

2.> Two woman on a date together, for reasons unknown - get into some sort of altercation with the above gang, when it goes wrong - they resort to telling lies that they had homophobic abuse thrown at them, in order to cause maximum damage to the defendants.

Because those are the two arguments, the victims are telling the truth - or they're telling lies, if they're telling the truth, it was a perfect example of a homophobic attack.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

i don't think it escalated from requesting they kiss to kicking their heads in without any provocation from them. i'd like to think had they ignored the gang or simply gotten off the bus and caught the next one nothing would have happened. if it did indeed occur without any talking back like that then they should be sent to saudi arabia for execution.

was the gang male or female? if male then i would think even scrotes would think twice before trampling a innocent female bystanders face regardless of their sexuality.

so this is why i think they probably said something back to them rather than walking away. obviously they would never admit to that as it wouldn't paint as good a victim story. not that they deserved what happened but i'd like to think it could have been much more easily avoidable with them being females. had it been 2 males i imagine they would have gotten a panning even without them talking back.

so that is why wrong time and place. i imagine these females would think twice now if ever confronted by a gang again. or maybe the payday they get off this might mean they now get even more lippy towards them in the hope of more fame and fortune.

 

[Efour]

For what very little it's worth and the CCTV evidence can instantly debunk what I think, but I do think they retaliated to verbal provocation and the guys being scum beat them up, opportunisticly stole their stuff whilst fleeing the scene.

This is still moronic, disgusting behaviour that needs to be punished. Im sure we will see when the evidence is leaked to social media.

 

[edscdk]

I'm not assuming they're lying at all. I'm just saying we cannot trust that what they're saying is the truth. Two very different things.

yer your brain does not like missing information and will fill in the gaps for you...

watched a few nice videos on lawyers / police doing this to demonstrate how unreliable eye witness' are

 

[wesimmo]

Not necessarily. I think for a start you don't understand the meaning of the word racist. Though that's not unusual on these forums...

Now take Fred West. All of his victims are white. Is that because he was racist? No, it's because only white people (women as it happens) were readily available for him to prey on.

It's really hard trying to talk down at your level...

Fred West, as you said, took opportunities and they just happened to be white victims. I stated someone who targeted white people and was very careful to do so because of contrarians like yourself who want to try and reduce homophobic scumbags to merely scumbags for some unknown reason.

While attacks like this happen regularly then we should be talking about how to stop them, not having discussions about whether minorities in any area are disproportionately targeted for abuse, that's a given.

 

[Dis86]

yer your brain does not like missing information and will fill in the gaps for you...

watched a few nice videos on lawyers / police doing this to demonstrate how unreliable eye witness' are

Precisely. That's exactly what I'm referring to.

 

[Screeeech]

so that is why wrong time and place. i imagine these females would think twice now if ever confronted by a gang again. or maybe the payday they get off this might mean they now get even more lippy towards them in the hope of more fame and fortune.

So, based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever - you think they made it up/exaggerated it for a payday/fame and fortune?

You're taking absurdity to another level.

 

[Dis86]

It's really hard trying to talk down at your level...

Fred West, as you said, took opportunities and they just happened to be white victims. I stated someone who targeted white people and was very careful to do so because of contrarians like yourself who want to try and reduce homophobic scumbags to merely scumbags for some unknown reason.

Except it's still rubbish. Ted Bundy targeted white women. Are you saying he was racist against white people?
It's common that serial killers have a typical type of victim, typically someone who reflects a figure from their past. They will go for that type. Others target what is available.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

So, based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever - you think they made it up/exaggerated it for a payday/fame and fortune?

You're taking absurdity to another level.

where did I say they made it up or even exaggerated?

i'm just saying they are likely leaving out the part where they antoganised them after their initial provocation.

to make it clear;

step 1. morons approach lesbians and ask them to do sexy time
step 2. lesbians refuse
step 3. morons keep harassing them
step 4. lesbian(s) decide to make fun of the size of morons penor
step 5. morons decide to stamp on lesbians face
step 6. lesbians found fame and fortune

what i'm saying is after step 3 they likely could have easily gotten off the bus or ignored them or moved to a different part of the bus, etc. because they were female and less likely to be attacked by males than say a male homosexual couple would have been. i'm not saying it doesn't happen i'd like to think it wouldn't under "normal" circumstances. which is why I believe step 4 happened.

 

[StriderX]

Why should people ignore being harassed? Isn't this forum always moaning about society becoming rigid flakes of solid water? Antagonising someone after they've harassed you isn't validation to punch people in the face.

I'm not saying they should have though confronted them, but this is hypocritical.

 

[wesimmo]

Except it's still rubbish. Ted Bundy targeted white women. Are you saying he was racist against white people?
It's common that serial killers have a typical type of victim, typically someone who reflects a figure from their past. They will go for that type. Others target what is available.

It's not some all or nothing thing, not all serial killers who killed white people were racists which, again, is why I specifically said what I said.

In Bundy's case I would have stated it as 'he targeted women who reminded him of his mother' (IDK but as an example).

So, if someone specifically targets white people because of their race then they are both racist and a serial killer.

 

[Screeeech]

where did I say they made it up or even exaggerated?

i'm just saying they are likely leaving out the part where they antoganised them after their initial provocation.

to make it clear;

step 1. morons approach lesbians and ask them to do sexy time
step 2. lesbians refuse
step 3. morons keep harassing them
step 4. lesbian(s) decide to make fun of the size of morons penor
step 5. morons decide to stamp on lesbians face
step 6. lesbians found fame and fortune

what i'm saying is after step 3 they likely could have easily gotten off the bus or ignored them or moved to a different part of the bus, etc. because they were female and less likely to be attacked by males than say a male homosexual couple would have been. i'm not saying it doesn't happen i'd like to think it wouldn't under "normal" circumstances. which is why I believe step 4 happened.

To make it clear to you - it doesn't matter whether they 'had a go back' or not.

If someone is throwing abuse at you, you're well within your rights to confront them and tell them to stop.

So even if your six steps are true - that basically constitutes a homophobic hate crime, because in step 1 - they're being heckled for being lesbians, that's the motive right there - the whole incident starts from, and escalates from there.

Whether or not the girls shouted anything back at them in response to having coins and abuse thrown at them, simply doesn't matter.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Why should people ignore being harassed?

Because they value their face/teeth and health over some moron's idea of fun?

so if someone came up to you in the street with a baseball bat and started getting wide. i take it you would be in there telling him his mum just finished cleaning your under carriage with her tongue and you were just on your way to pick up his sister for a threeway with his bird?

no you wouldn't. you would choose to ignore said moron with baseball bat or you would find somewhere safe to go. what you wouldn't do is the above so lets stop pretending that you would.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

To make it clear to you - it doesn't matter whether they 'had a go back' or not.

If someone is throwing abuse at you, you're well within your rights to confront them and tell them to stop.

So even if your six steps are true - that basically constitutes a homophobic hate crime, because in step 1 - they're being heckled for being lesbians, that's the motive right there - the whole incident starts from, and escalates from there.

Whether or not the girls shouted anything back at them in response to having coins and abuse thrown at them, simply doesn't matter.

it does matter as like i said it's very likely the whole thing could have been avoided.

 

[wesimmo]

step 6. lesbians found fame and fortune

I'm pretty sure step 6. was - Lesbians got battered and bloodied and then had their private lives splashed all over the media.

There's a big difference between fame and infamy, I doubt they'll be making any big bucks from the publicity.

And no they didn't ask for that to happen by reporting it as they have, if anything they should get credit for not slinking off and licking their wounds and instead opening themselves up for abuse for the greater good.

As for the rest of your victim blaming, there's no point in even discussing that.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I'm pretty sure step 6. was - Lesbians got battered and bloodied and then had their private lives splashed all over the media.

There's a big difference between fame and infamy, I doubt they'll be making any big bucks from the publicity.

And no they didn't ask for that to happen by reporting it as they have, if anything they should get credit for not slinking off and licking their wounds and instead opening themselves up for abuse for the greater good.

As for the rest of your victim blaming, there's no point in even discussing that.

they will be on morning tv. getting offers left right and centre. one will find a new vocation as a gay rights speaker / activist, etc.

it makes me wonder why did this story get so much traction when stuff like this happens all the time and the media don't even bother giving it 5 lines.

 

[StriderX]

Because they value their face/teeth and health over some moron's idea of fun?

so if someone came up to you in the street with a baseball bat and started getting wide. i take it you would be in there telling him his mum just finished cleaning your under carriage with her tongue and you were just on your way to pick up his sister for a threeway with his bird?

no you wouldn't. you would choose to ignore said moron with baseball bat or you would find somewhere safe to go. what you wouldn't do is the above so lets stop pretending that you would.

Literally said i wouldn't, though if someone was walking up with the express intent of harassing me with a weapon, i might have no choice.

 

[Screeeech]

it does matter as like i said it's very likely the whole thing could have been avoided.

You don't understand the law.

If someone is throwing abuse at you (and in this case, homophobic abuse and coins) you're well within your rights as a citizen, to confront them and tell them to stop - which is exactly what one of the girls did.

The fact it blew out of control and they were subsequently beaten and robbed, by as many as 5x men - does not result in any wrongdoing on the part of the women at all - in fact quite the contrary.

I imagine they'll be applauded for confronting the criminals in the way they did, as they should be.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

You don't understand the law.

If someone is throwing abuse at you (and in this case, homophobic abuse and coins) you're well within your rights as a citizen, to confront them and tell them to stop - which is exactly what one of the girls did.

The fact it blew out of control and they were subsequently beaten and robbed, by as many as 5x men - does not result in any wrongdoing on the part of the women at all - in fact quite the contrary.

I imagine they'll be applauded for confronting the criminals in the way they did, as they should be.

i'm not saying they were in the wrong or did anything wrong. i'm just saying it's likely it could have been avoided. which is what I imagine they will now have learnt the hard way.

if a nutter comes up to you in the street. you ignore them and get away from them regardless of how much they harass you. even more so if there are 5 of them and 2 of you. even more so if you are female and they are male.

they don't care what is right and wrong.

what your saying is if someone harasses you. you can confront them and get your teeth kicked in. well yes i agree with you. you can do that. however it's not what i'd advise you to do however much it may be the "right" thing to do. because one of them may have a knife and is your life really worth not ignoring it?

only a moron would choose confrontation over their own life. they were lucky is what i say. had it been 2 homosexual males this could have well ended with lives lost.

 

[Screeeech]

i'm not saying they were in the wrong or did anything wrong. i'm just saying it's likely it could have been avoided. which is what I imagine they will now have learnt the hard way.

if a nutter comes up to you in the street. you ignore them and get away from them regardless of how much they harass you. even more so if there are 5 of them and 2 of you. even more so if you are female and they are male.

they don't care what is right and wrong.

what your saying is if someone harasses you. you can confront them and get your teeth kicked in. well yes i agree with you. you can do that. however it's not what i'd advise you to do however much it may be the "right" thing to do. because one of them may have a knife and is your life really worth not ignoring it?

only a moron would choose confrontation over their own life. they were lucky is what i say. had it been 2 homosexual males this could have well ended with lives lost.

Looks like those lesbians have bigger balls than you.

I guess they chose not to sit there and take it like gutless cowards - rather than shrivel up like a wet paper bag, they chose to stand up give some back.

I don't think there's anything moronic about it whatsoever, rather brave and commendable if you ask me - even if they did take a beating in the end.