Where did the paranormal go?

[ethan]

But it could, and the report explains how. Stuff done in the dark, with no video recording...relatively easy. Good magicians pull off tricks in bright lighting with an audience of thousands, sometimes including some people right in front of the magician. Very good magicians can fool other very good magicians, who can't determine how the trick was done even when watching carefully in good lighting with expert knowledge. It would be much easier inn complete darkness with all conditions controlled by the people doing the "magic".

Maybe

He didn't fathom it out, Magicians are being fooled all the time and 40 years of experience means bugger all when somebody is better.



Amazing, my spirit guide will run off if it knows a cameras is about.


A lot of people don't know about the Fox Sisters who were basically responsible for Modern Spiritualism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_sisters
They spawned a nation of people becoming spiritualists and people going to see spiritualists and then confessed on their death bed how they did it.
It was too late and the gullible carried on.

He was merely trying to do what Randi has being doing for the past decade. But because you don't agree/believe what he said, you draw an objection to it. At the end of the day, we can only say, with this example, we don't know--just as I don't know why somebody with that level of experience as a magician would want to put his experience and reputation at risk as a professional?

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I have about 4 FB friends who visit mediums/psychics/fortune tellers/etc and come away amazed at how much the "spiritualist" knew about they're lives.

Except these are the same friends who plaster every moment of their lives on social media, but yeah, the "spiritualist" contacted supernatural entities....

Before Social Media they had and still have different techniques.
People usually mingle talking about what they expect from the evening unknown that there are 'Plants' in the room and this information gets passed on.
My friend and others got up with Derren Brown while the rest of us went for a break.
On returning Derren picked on around 4 people doing a pretend psychic reading with them, was very accurate and my friend was amazed at the detail.
A couple of days later we all knew it was a trick and then I said you must have done something, what was it?
She said they had to go to a table and write stuff down that Derren couldn't possibly know and then fold it up and put it into the glass jar
I said "Did you look for the video camera directly above you or look under the table?".

 

[dowie]

Penn & Teller are two of the World's greatest Magicians, they have a series called Fool Us and they get caught out many times but they do not claim that the person who fooled them must be proper magic.

Indeed.

Though generally the magicians aren't using any particularly novel technique, they're just very good at performing a standard trick or tricks within their routine to the point where it executed so well it isn't spotted even by people who are aware of the technique.

Penn and Teller could, in most of the cases, could likely narrow most routines down to a subset of possible techniques which will contain the one(s) used, but when executed well people do indeed fool them to the point where they'd not be able to say where the move was made or what technique was used.

Ophira: And do you find out how the tricks that fool you are done?

Penn: There's no formal way of that, but I'll tell you as soon as we finish the guy runs to our seats and goes "Yeah! It was a double face card and a rough smooth! I was so sure you were going to bust me! It's just a double facer!".

 

[Angilion]

I'm aware of post 200 thanks (it doesn't answer the question and assumes I'm asking for something else), it seems that you're not going to provide anything to back up the claim I asked about, that speaks for itself tbh...

Only when you're deliberately misrepresenting it.

You are not denying that some people think that some things have been moved from Groom Lake at some point in time. You can't deny that because you've seen/read some people saying that.

Note that I have never claimed that it's true, only that some people think it's true. It's like ghosts, for example. Some people think ghosts exist. Are you going to spend numerous posts demanding that I provide you with links to evidence that ghosts exist now, despite the fact that I did not make that claim?

Your repeated demands for me to provide you with useless links to something we both already know is true have nothing to do with me backing up a claim.


You being aware of post 200 is irrelevant. I'm not posting it for you. I'm posting it in case anyone believes your misleading statements about me. So here it is again.

Where did the paranormal go?

And here is my original post, the one that dowie finds so extremely objectionable.

Where did the paranormal go?

 

[dowie]

And here is my original post, the one that dowie finds so extremely objectionable.

Where did the paranormal go?

Lets simplify this - it is a perfectly reasonable and straight forward question. Ref that post you refer to above:

The alleged reason for the move isn't "just so some UFO fans don't know where it is anymore". The alleged reason for the move is contamination of the site with hazardous materials.

Alleged by whom? Who made this allegation - do you have a link?

That's all I'm asking for, just some details on this apparent existing allegation. The other poster didn't give that as a reason so I'm asking where it came from. Your post 200 you keep referring to doesn't answer that.

You've made a claim yet you repeatedly refuse to back it up. I now suspect therefore that it is something you made up yourself.

(I'm not asking whether some workers suffered some ill health from some chemicals in an open burn pit, I'm not asking did some other poster make some vague claim that the base was moved, I'm asking the above in relation to the claim you've made)

 

[Angilion]

I have about 4 FB friends who visit mediums/psychics/fortune tellers/etc and come away amazed at how much the "spiritualist" knew about they're lives.

Except these are the same friends who plaster every moment of their lives on social media, but yeah, the "spiritualist" contacted supernatural entities....

Social media is a great tool for "mysteriously" knowing things about a person if the "mystic" knows in advance who their targets are, but a lot can still be done with no prior knowledge at all. It's known as "cold reading". It requires more skill, but it can be very effective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

Derren Brown is a famous example of a person who's good at it and who explains how he does it. You can find videos on Youtube where he'll determine quite a lot of detail about a person without prior knowledge of those details, using cold reading technques.

Skip to 2:00 for the "mind reading" bit in this video for an example.

Dress that up with some suitable flimflam and you've got a medium, psychic or fortune teller.[/media]

 

[Angilion]

I'm not deliberately misrepresenting anything, I simply asked you for a source/link? It isn't an unreasonable request. Sticking your fingers in your ears and repeatedly replying with "see post 200" doesn't answer the question. [..]

The claim I made that has got you so bothered is that some people think something has been moved out of Groom Lake/Area 51.

You're not simply asking for a source/link for that claim. You know that claim is true. By repeatedly ignoring the claim itself and just pretending I'm not providing sources for a substantial claim, you're misrepresenting me. Which is why I am repeatedly referring people to the claim I actually made - in case anyone is fooled by your misrepresentation.

Of course I could provide a dozen links to people saying that they think that something was moved out of Groom Lake/Area 51. But what good would that do? It wouldn't stop you. What you're doing has nothing to do with links to people saying they think something has been moved from that site at some point in time.

If anyone cares what I've actually written, see post number 200. Or 148.

 

[dowie]

The claim I made that has got you so bothered is that some people think something has been moved out of Groom Lake/Area 51.[...]

Don't lie, I'm aware that the other poster made a vague claim. That isn't what I've asked you, again:

I'm not asking did some other poster make some vague claim that the base was moved, I'm asking the above in relation to the claim you've made)

You claimed this:

The alleged reason for the move isn't "just so some UFO fans don't know where it is anymore". The alleged reason for the move is contamination of the site with hazardous materials.

I've simply asked where that (apparently already existing) allegation has come from, do you have a link?

If you actually mean to say that you believe X etc.. and were presenting it as your own little hypothesis then that's fine... but you've posted as though this is a pre-existing hypothesis that someone else has come up with.

"the alleged reason" etc.. Alleged by whom? Where? Do you have a link?

 

[Angilion]

Don't lie [..]

If anyone cares what I've actually written, see post number 200. Or 148.

I am quite willing to continue replying with that text until you stop or one or either of us gets suspended for this annoying distraction from a thread.

 

[dowie]

If anyone cares what I've actually written, see post number 200. Or 148.

Post 148 is what I'm asking about and post 200 doesn't answer the question! You made up your own story/"hypothesis" here, that's why you can't answer the question/provide anything. And I think I'll probably leave it there as you're just going to dodge the question again, please go ahead and quote this with a reply referencing the same posts

 

[4K8KW10]

If *They* "don't exist", what is this?

 

[Donnie Fisher]

Could that vid ^^^ be a result of mpeg compression artefact travelling across the image from frame to frame ?

 

[Gerard]

Creepy looking whatever it is

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Could that vid ^^^ be a result of mpeg compression artefact travelling across the image from frame to frame ?

Or since the camera is in the same place, it is video recorded on top of video that hasn't been erased properly.
My mate gets this happening with his cheap CCTV on his garage.

 

[enkoda]

Social media is a great tool for "mysteriously" knowing things about a person if the "mystic" knows in advance who their targets are, but a lot can still be done with no prior knowledge at all. It's known as "cold reading". It requires more skill, but it can be very effective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

Derren Brown is a famous example of a person who's good at it and who explains how he does it. You can find videos on Youtube where he'll determine quite a lot of detail about a person without prior knowledge of those details, using cold reading technques.

Skip to 2:00 for the "mind reading" bit in this video for an example.

Dress that up with some suitable flimflam and you've got a medium, psychic or fortune teller.[/media]

Tough one there for DB - find out who is appearing on the show with him, dig out a newspaper or magazine article with an interview of that celeb (I'm guessing internet too, I had to google the show and it dates back to 2002), and hey presto!
From aardvark's link in post 185 (https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4179) I saw the name Mark Edward mentioned and it dawned on me that it's the same chap involved in exposing a con artist psychic in this video:

If *They* "don't exist", what is this?

A distraction from the possibility that the parents are desperately trying to prevent social services from investigating the child's facial injury?

Edit: found this https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/michigan_nanny_cam_lsquoghostrsquo_most_likely_mom_or_dad/

 

[Gerard]

A distraction from the possibility that the parents are desperately trying to prevent social services from investigating the child's facial injury?

Yeah because a ghost sighting is much more plausible than any number of accidental explanations.

 

[dowie]

Tough one there for DB - find out who is appearing on the show with him, dig out a newspaper or magazine article with an interview of that celeb (I'm guessing internet too, I had to google the show and it dates back to 2002), and hey presto!

That still required some mentalist/cold reading type skills, it isn't like he's one of those "psychics" who suddenly drops in some name or random fact he couldn't possibly know as some demonstration of their supposed "magical" ability. He's a trained mentalist/stage magician.

Perhaps he has found out she likes horses and/or found out she had a horse as a kid... it is plausible that he didn't though, she's a posh girl... good odds that she rode horses as a kid. Regardless he's still got plenty of risk when he tells her to think of a memory.

 

[wolfie138]

damn, looks like they did secretly move Area 51 after all!

 

[NVP]

secretly

Qft

 

[wolfie138]

Qft

"hiding in plain sight".