Hyperthreading vs Non Hyperthreading in games

[joedeath332]

So my PC is mostly just used for gaming and i was going to upgrade the CPU to a 17-9700kF but i am wondering if with more and more games being designed for multicore useage , would i be better spending the extra and getting the i9-9900KF with Hyperthreading so that its more future proof as it has 16 cores instead of 8 cores but something i'm not sure of is if a game is designed to use multiple cores , does it prefer to use the hyperthreading cores or actual physical cores , or can the games usually not tell the difference between the two and just use what ever core is available.
i plan to Overclock the CPU as much as possible for max single core frequency , i take it the i7-9700KF would do this better due to no hyperthreading.

 

[Rroff]

A typical game these days likes 1-3 real cores to run the heavy weight stuff on and then uses a bunch of worker threads, etc. which don't really care what they are running on but if you end up with too many of them on the same core you will likely see some stutter, etc. (there are some exceptions where some games don't like SMT at all or vice versa games that can make very good use of SMT).

It will also depend a bit on whether you are happily playing at 60Hz especially at higher resolutions or aiming for 120+Hz/FPS where the CPU can have more of an impact.

I would say that a base line would be 8 cores/threads where at least 2-3 are real cores even if the rest is made up from SMT/HT but that doesn't leave a lot of future proofing.

 

[joedeath332]

A typical game these days likes 1-3 real cores to run the heavy weight stuff on and then uses a bunch of worker threads, etc. which don't really care what they are running on but if you end up with too many of them on the same core you will likely see some stutter, etc. (there are some exceptions where some games don't like SMT at all or vice versa games that can make very good use of SMT).

It will also depend a bit on whether you are happily playing at 60Hz especially at higher resolutions or aiming for 120+Hz/FPS where the CPU can have more of an impact.

I would say that a base line would be 8 cores/threads where at least 2-3 are real cores even if the rest is made up from SMT/HT but that doesn't leave a lot of future proofing.

Thanks @Rroff , i mainly game using VR , the HP Reverb which has 2 screens @ 2160 x 2160 so 4320 x 2160 and the main game that i play is iRacing which runs on an old engine which just uses one core . but when upgrading my CPU i would like to make sure that it is future proof for about 3 years so hense the multicore / hyperthreading question.
My GPU is a 1080ti and my monitor is 1080p but its seldom used , as most games i play in VR as they are racing sims.

 

[IT Troll]

I think Iracing is one of the small number of games which don’t like Hyperthreading. I believe it will use 2 cores but it is best if they are physical rather than logical to avoid micro stutters.

 

[zx128k]

What used to be 4 is now 6.

 

[joedeath332]

I think Iracing is one of the small number of games which don’t like Hyperthreading. I believe it will use 2 cores but it is best if they are physical rather than logical to avoid micro stutters.

Ahh interesting do you know if you can disable hyperthreading on amd? ( only ask as my current cpu is a 2700x)

What used to be 4 is now 6.

What do you mean, I'm lost

 

[jigger]

A lot of games (most?) scale with cores and in many games 4c 8t chips out perform the 4 core chips.

 

[Deleted User 456458]

Ahh interesting do you know if you can disable hyperthreading on amd? ( only ask as my current cpu is a 2700x)

In your bios, it should be called "SMT" That's AMD's name for Hyperthreading.

I do a lot of sim racing also in VR. pimax 5k+ with a 9900k and a 2080ti.

The 9700k would be a way better option than a 9900k. Read this: https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...nt-and-ram-scaling-in-acc-ac1-and-r3e.172320/

The 2 biggest things that help in VR sim racing. Tuning the hell out of your ram and maxing out your CPU frequency.

 

[zx128k]

The main issue people forget. That even at 720p/1080p, you will become GPU bound at some point in your overclock. Increasing CPU performance will do little, clock speed or RAM speed. For example.

There are big jumps between 3200 and 4400. You can see it at 1% and 0.1% lows. Even so the average does not change much. That is a good sign of GPU bound. This is the thing about CPU's and GPU's. You can see it with AMD vs Intel cpu's, where they both perform approx. the same above 1080p. https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...nt-and-ram-scaling-in-acc-ac1-and-r3e.172320/ is gpu bound and all he is measuring is the point his 1080ti reaches maximum.

Basic build needed for gaming. 6c - 12t
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...speculated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Asus Prime X570-P - £179.99 (VRM's can run the 3900x without overheating)
Patriot Memory Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3600MHz Performance Memory Kit - PVS416G360C7K - £73
AMD Ryzen 5 3600x Processor (6C/12T, 35MB Cache) £218.99

 

[joedeath332]

In your bios, it should be called "SMT" That's AMD's name for Hyperthreading.

I do a lot of sim racing also in VR. pimax 5k+ with a 9900k and a 2080ti.

The 9700k would be a way better option than a 9900k. Read this: https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...nt-and-ram-scaling-in-acc-ac1-and-r3e.172320/

The 2 biggest things that help in VR sim racing. Tuning the hell out of your ram and maxing out your CPU frequency.

Hi Robert and thanks for that info, some interesting reading in there.
Yip by this stage I have now opted for the i7 9700kf, so that I have 8 physical cores, which hopefully will get 5ghz when overclocked.
I am also going to get new ram to go with the 9700kf, and am thinking on
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3600mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-08q-tg.html
Good or bad choice??

The main issue people forget. That even at 720p/1080p, you will become GPU bound at some point in your overclock. Increasing CPU performance will do little, clock speed or RAM speed. For example.

There are big jumps between 3200 and 4400. You can see it at 1% and 0.1% lows. Even so the average does not change much. That is a good sign of GPU bound. This is the thing about CPU's and GPU's. You can see it with AMD vs Intel cpu's, where they both perform approx. the same above 1080p. https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...nt-and-ram-scaling-in-acc-ac1-and-r3e.172320/ is gpu bound and all he is measuring is the point his 1080ti reaches maximum.

Basic build needed for gaming. 6c - 12t
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...speculated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Asus Prime X570-P - £179.99 (VRM's can run the 3900x without overheating)
Patriot Memory Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3600MHz Performance Memory Kit - PVS416G360C7K - £73
AMD Ryzen 5 3600x Processor (6C/12T, 35MB Cache) £218.99

I've tried the ryzen route for iRacing & high ress VR and my 2700x @4.3 is maxing out, plus I recon I need better ram that can be ran tighter.

 

[Deleted User 456458]

Hi Robert and thanks for that info, some interesting reading in there.
Yip by this stage I have now opted for the i7 9700kf, so that I have 8 physical cores, which hopefully will get 5ghz when overclocked.
I am also going to get new ram to go with the 9700kf, and am thinking on
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3600mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-08q-tg.html
Good or bad choice??

I'd get this board as it's a rockstar for RAM OC and the VRM's are fine for a 9700k https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MPG-Z390I-GAMING-EDGE-AC It's 2 DIMM but 16gb is more then enough.

That's a b die kit so it'll have good tuning headroom.

Here's a RAM tuning guide that's pretty much perfect:
https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md

 

[~>Dg<~]

as long as you have 6 cores now you pretty much fine its never really made much difference as long as you have enough cores. the 9700k is the best gaming cpu. it wont change and no amd cpu will be close for 3 years at least.

 

[Steveocee]

as long as you have 6 cores now you pretty much fine its never really made much difference as long as you have enough cores. the 9700k is the best gaming cpu. it wont change and no amd cpu will be close for 3 years at least.

This but queue the onslaught of pointless posts of people arguing that the 3600 is "nearly as good as" and disregard it would be a full platform swap.

 

[kevman]

As a flight sim and race sim enthusiast I think that intel are still the best option for this genre as all the games prefer single thread performance. All other game types I would go amd now

 

[TrM]

as long as you have 6 cores now you pretty much fine its never really made much difference as long as you have enough cores. the 9700k is the best gaming cpu. it wont change and no amd cpu will be close for 3 years at least.

got to say you have one hell of a mystic ball in front of you for telling the future early 2017 you don’t need more then the mighty 7700k cpu ryzen changes that for computing (not gaming) intel Come our tith the 8700k which was amazing don’t get me wrong and now amd nearly match intel with 3000 series but they won’t beat them? As I said nice crystal ball you have there as for most people we don’t know what amd or intel will do! Intel could come out with 7nm 11gen cpu and blow everything away zen 3 from amd could do the same! Not saying amd will beat intel but I’m sure we have a lot more twists in this cpu war saga

 

[robfosters]

as long as you have 6 cores now you pretty much fine its never really made much difference as long as you have enough cores. the 9700k is the best gaming cpu. it wont change and no amd cpu will be close for 3 years at least.

As long as you don't want to play RDR2 at high FPS

Anyway, the 3700X goes toe to toe with it for £40 less, so saying nothing from AMD comes close is utter rubbish.

 

[TNA]

as long as you have 6 cores now you pretty much fine its never really made much difference as long as you have enough cores. the 9700k is the best gaming cpu. it wont change and no amd cpu will be close for 3 years at least.

Lol.

 

[~>Dg<~]

As long as you don't want to play RDR2 at high FPS

Anyway, the 3700X goes toe to toe with it for £40 less, so saying nothing from AMD comes close is utter rubbish.

people with slower chips always pick the one game that is close. the truth is the intel 9700k is far better in games across the board. £40 less over 3-5 years. why would you have a slower pc over 3-5 years for £40. any one answer that with logic i will conceed. you cant. its pointless. we all know if honest the 9700k is the best gaming cpu . if people honestly think anything amd is better. leave me out of it. as you are dilisuional.

 

[~>Dg<~]

got to say you have one hell of a mystic ball in front of you for telling the future early 2017 you don’t need more then the mighty 7700k cpu ryzen changes that for computing (not gaming) intel Come our tith the 8700k which was amazing don’t get me wrong and now amd nearly match intel with 3000 series but they won’t beat them? As I said nice crystal ball you have there as for most people we don’t know what amd or intel will do! Intel could come out with 7nm 11gen cpu and blow everything away zen 3 from amd could do the same! Not saying amd will beat intel but I’m sure we have a lot more twists in this cpu war saga

funny thing is the 7700k overclocked still in most titles beats amds intel beating cpus out now. they basically match a non overclocked 8700 non k. yet somehow they better than 9700ks now lol.

 

[Chrisc]

Ahh interesting do you know if you can disable hyperthreading on amd? ( only ask as my current cpu is a 2700x)


What do you mean, I'm lost

I think in the AMD bios its under as 'SMT'