US kills Iran's General Soleimani

FoxEye said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran

So we (the Brits) we're forcing regime change in 1940, for the Iranian crime of remaining neutral in WW2. We replaced a modernising, peaceful leader with a puppet who was believed to be favourable to British interests. We sent German families living in Iran to Russian concentration camps; no doubt sending many to their deaths.

Prior to that we were taking Iranian oil and giving them only 10% of the profits (like how we screwed India and others).

We gave Iranian territory to Russia and we caused food shortages throughout the country, wrecking their economy in the process. Because they were neutral.

We've been ******* over countries in the ME and the East since forever.

Who knows how these places could have ended up if we weren't so keen on "liberating" them from any ruler not immediately bending over when we commanded it.

We're absolutely not the good guys. That's the only sane conclusion.
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Why bother, most in here don't know the history of their country, except the few breadcrumbs given at school?

And ofc lets not forget the 1953....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état

Which the USA-British puppet did it's best to destroy any secularism in that country. Which ofc turned everyone to the other side and the Iranian Revolution of 1979.

Rroff said:
I have very mixed feelings on this - on the one hand things have been done in the name of the British Empire that would make the Nazis proud on the other hand you see pictures of some parts of the ME under British rule or within the sphere of British influence in the 50s, etc. people had a freedom and quality of life they absolutely haven't had before or since.
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Ahh yeah British "rule"...... 1955 Cyprus? When Britain used Turks as judges to hang Greeks on the streets and the British solders are still been chased at the British courts for physically torturing children?

How about the Mau Mau in Kenya in the 50s?

Atm we are on the dark side of history, having become what our fathers fought in WW2. Without realising this, only downwards spiral exist.
 
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Craig Murray has an interesting post on his blog published on Saturday that tears to pieces the lies used to justify this attack, tying those lies to those used by the USA, UK and Israel for various illegal acts over the years. I had never heard of the Bethlehem Doctrine before and it makes for very interesting reading.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
 
dowie said:
Not necessarily - they can also comply... no one is forcing them to be a rogue state.
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Ah yes, they can be good boys and girls and comply with the USA's vision for the world.

That's basically what this amounts to.

And the US is guilty as others have said of running it's own proxy wars; funding insurgents and militias and arming them.

But it's different when they do it. Might makes right.
 
dowie said:
Not necessarily - they can also comply... no one is forcing them to be a rogue state.
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Define "rogue state". The country that wants to have control of it's own sovereignty and resources? Isn't what UK wants atm getting out of the EU becoming a rogue state (to the EU) itself?

Hypocrisy is strong with you.
 
America lied about the invasion of Iraq and deemed preemptive war as justified, they have lied for almost two decades about Afghanistan across multiple administrations, they lie/massively downplay their/allies' casualties caused by their bombing campaigns in the ME. And we are expected to believe their justification of an imminent threat whilst providing no evidence, led by the most deceitful president and administration in their history. The world has one less terrorist & military architect but lets not be under any illusion the Trump administration is acting in good faith going forward.
 
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doodah said:
America lied about the invasion of Iraq and deemed preemptive war as justified, they have lied for almost two decades about Afghanistan across multiple administrations, they lie/massively downplay their/allies' casualties caused by their bombing campaigns in the ME. And we are expected to believe their justification of an imminent threat whilst providing no evidence, led by the most deceitful president and administration in their history. The world has one less terrorist & military architect but lets not be under any illusion the Trump administration is acting in good faith going forward.
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And lets not forget. Trump yesterday said that they will destroy 52 sites of Iranian (Persian) cultural heritage.
Hmm let me remember, which other organisation did just that..... but of course. ISIS.
 
doodah said:
America lied about the invasion of Iraq and deemed preemptive war as justified, they have lied for almost two decades about Afghanistan across multiple administrations, they lie/massively downplay their/allies' casualties caused by their bombing campaigns in the ME. And we are expected to believe their justification of an imminent threat whilst providing no evidence, led by the most deceitful president and administration in their history. The world has one less terrorist & military architect but lets not be under any illusion the Trump administration is acting in good faith going forward.
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How about the Iranians? Do you trust them, or would you put them in the same boat as the U.S.?
 
Panos said:
And lets not forget. Trump yesterday said that they will destroy 52 sites of Iranian (Persian) cultural heritage.
Hmm let me remember, which other organisation did just that..... but of course. ISIS.
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Yeah and he has doubled down on that today and confirmed he definitely does mean cultural sites (a war crime). US have become no better than ISIS.
 
i know nothing said:
How about the Iranians? Do you trust them, or would you put them in the same boat as the U.S.?
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Of course not, their government are bad actors but they aren't an ally pretending to be the leader of the free world are they? Furthermore I/the world trusted them enough to abide by the JCPOA which they did, who broke the trust on that agreement?

Why are we still in the ME? What is the end goal? When is the definition of victory? Because it feels like America and the UK are just making it up on the spot.

i know nothing said:
He did?
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Yes he did (disproportionately and cultural sites)...

 
doodah said:
Of course not, their government are bad actors but they aren't an ally pretending to be the leader of the free world are they? Furthermore I/the world trusted them enough to abide by the JCPOA which they did, who broke the trust on that agreement?
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So you feel the Iranians are justified in their recent actions and would be justified in their claim to seek revenge because they aren't pretending to be leaders of the free world and they didn't break that agreement?
 
dowie said:
Say a couple of US soldiers get killed in more schenanegans by Iran tomorrow... well dozens of Iranians die in multiple strikes launched in direct response at key infrastructure. Hopefully with some big, partly symbolic target, right in the middle of Tehran.
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so you believe in the targeting of civilians in reprisals
 
Panos said:
And lets not forget. Trump yesterday said that they will destroy 52 sites of Iranian (Persian) cultural heritage.
Hmm let me remember, which other organisation did just that..... but of course. ISIS.
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No he didn't. Read it again.
 
i know nothing said:
So you feel the Iranians are justified in their recent actions and would be justified in their claim to seek revenge because they aren't pretending to be leaders of the free world and they didn't break that agreement?
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If you're trying to get me to justify killing people, that isn't going to happen. But do you understand consequences? America and some EU nations convinced Iran to not build a nuke or at the very least massively slow down their progress in doing so. Despite abiding by the agreement, America reneged and slapped on even harsher sanctions on them. You think something as egregious as this won't have consequences? The same thing for Soleimani, Trump has had three years to kill him and if reports are true - he was on his way to mediate/ease tensions in the area with SA. Trump called the Iraqi PM to expand on this and then carried out the strike anyway. Trump also betrayed the Kurds. So back to my earlier point, America are doing a bang up job when it comes to trust which you would think would be a crucial element in international diplomacy. Pompeo specifically said Americans are now safer despite telling all Americans in Iraqi (bar the troops) to get out and very likely making the whole ME region more unstable. You're framing it about justification, it's about consequences and Trump has once again given zero ***** about it.
 
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doodah said:
Yes he did (disproportionately and cultural sites)...

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I think for a lot of people this conjures up images of ancient mosques/temples being blown up and such like. I'll stick my neck out and suggest that the clue here is "52" and although Trump didn't specifically mention "cultural sites", but did write about sites important to Iranian culture, that these sites are all linked to the Iranian revolution of 1979 and would include mouthpieces of the Iranian regime like newspapers and broadcasters.
 
doodah said:
If you're trying to get me to justify killing people, that isn't going to happen. But do you understand consequences? America and some EU nations convinced Iran to not build a nuke or at the very least massively slow down their progress in doing so. Despite abiding by the agreement, America reneged and slapped even harsher sanctions on them. You think something as egregious as this won't have consequences? The same thing for Soleimani, Trump has had three years to kill him and if reports are true - he was on his way to mediate/ease tensions in the area with SA. Trump called the Iraqi PM to expand on this and then carried out the strike anyway. Trump also betrayed the Kurds. So back to my earlier point, America are doing a bang up job when it comes to trust which you would think would be a crucial element in international diplomacy. Pompeo specifically said Americans are now safer despite telling all Americans in Iraqi (bar the troops) to get out and very likely making the whole ME region more unstable. You're framing it about justification, it's about consequences and Trump has once again given zero ***** about it.
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It's almost like he doesn't have a coherent strategy.
 
i know nothing said:
How about the Iranians? Do you trust them, or would you put them in the same boat as the U.S.?
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This is the problem with the internet, there aren't just 2 positions, it's not goodies and baddies in a film.

That Iran are a dangerous regime with dubious aims can also be true when you believe that the action taken by Trump at that time for dubious reasons was a strategically bad course.
 
doodah said:
If you're trying to get me to justify killing people, that isn't going to happen. But do you understand consequences? America and some EU nations convinced Iran to not build a nuke or at the very least massively slow down their progress in doing so. Despite abiding by the agreement, America reneged and slapped even harsher sanctions on them. You think something as egregious as this won't have consequences? The same thing for Soleimani, Trump has had three years to kill him and if reports are true - he was on his way to mediate/ease tensions in the area with SA. Trump called the Iraqi PM to expand on this and then carried out the strike anyway. Trump also betrayed the Kurds. So back to my earlier point, America are doing a bang up job when it comes to trust which you would think would be a crucial element in international diplomacy. Pompeo specifically said Americans are now safer despite telling all Americans in Iraqi (bar the troops) to get out and very likely making the whole ME region more unstable. You're framing it about justification, it's about consequences and Trump has once again given zero ***** about it.
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Consequences work both ways, you seem more concerned with those of the U.S. than those of Iran, it's almost as if you're excusing Iran from any consequences. You even go as far as to describe the U.S.'s actions as "egregious", somewhat shocking considering Iran's recent behaviour and let's not forget what they were up to! Are you prepared to accept that the Iranians (using your standards) are just as bad, if not worse?
 
FoxEye said:
Ah yes, they can be good boys and girls and comply with the USA's vision for the world.

That's basically what this amounts to.
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Hardly just the US... funding terrorism goes against most people views of the world.

And the US is guilty as others have said of running it's own proxy wars; funding insurgents and militias and arming them.

But it's different when they do it. Might makes right.
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The US is in Iraq to fight ISIS and train Iraqi security forces. Iran has attacked the US in Iraq, Iran wants western forces gone from Iraq... the US has every right to respond to that.
 
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