US kills Iran's General Soleimani

Screeeech said:
Considering this happened a few hours after Iran launched it's fireworks at the US, I imagine every air defense unit in Iran was on the highest alert, with very itchy trigger fingers.

It doesn't seem that far fetched to imagine terrified Iranian air-defense personnel, making a big mistake, under pressure of being attacked by the biggest air force in the world.
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After all all they see is a blimp on a radar screen, they can't tell if it's a 737 or tornado or can they, anybody worked on radar?
 
Rroff said:
I think you are doing the maths wrong - if it was 8km away and a missile was doing 10,000km/h it would take seconds not minutes to close that distance. (It won't be doing that speed though as it won't be maintaining 10,000km/h throughout the entire flight profile).

EDIT: Also doubt that an S-300 missile climbs at 10,000km/h even if it can get close to that speed on a closer to horizontal trajectory.
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It was 2 hours 42 mins between missiles being launched and the plane coming down, as per my earlier post, (eg not minutes and seconds).
 
thenewoc said:
It was 2 hours 42 mins between missiles being launched and the plane coming down, as per my earlier post, (eg not minutes and seconds).
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Unlikely the 737 was hit by ground to ground ballistic missiles - it took off a long way north (well north east) as well from the launch sites which were firing south west (roughly). Which makes it more likely if it was hit by a missile (and that is far from established right now) it was either ground based AA or an Iranian fighter jet shooting due to a misunderstanding or accident.
 
StriderX said:
You need to remember who you're talking about. This is a theocratic dictatorship, they need to show they will retaliate, regardless of how toothless it was. The real retaliation hasn't even begun i'd hazard.

This is about as much a domestic problem for Khomeini, the clergy and the military as it is a geopolitical one.
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2 cheeks of the same backside both wont be able to back down and lose face, one for political reasons the other because their ego wont allow it.
 
jsmoke said:
After all all they see is a blimp on a radar screen, they can't tell if it's a 737 or tornado or can they, anybody worked on radar?
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I don't really know, I think Western air defense systems will easily identify civilian aircraft vs military, probably based on it's transponder signal and some other secret sauce. But I have no idea how any of this stuff works, especially with what Iran has.

However, I wouldn't rule out squads of personnel armed with manpads, which don't have any identification capability at all (I don't think) it literally launches a homing missile at a target, aimed visually by the operator (heatseeker / IR or whatever) and then it's job done.

I imagine this is also a huge botch by the airport, why would they give authorisation for an aircraft to take off in such circumstances, seems like a stupid thing to do.
 
Rroff said:
Unlikely the 737 was hit by ground to ground ballistic missiles - it took off a long way north (well north east) as well from the launch sites which were firing south west (roughly). Which makes it more likely if it was hit by a missile (and that is far from established right now) it was either ground based AA or an Iranian fighter jet shooting due to a misunderstanding or accident.
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I imagine it more likely to be a case of tragic accident. It didn't pose any threat and would have been visible as to what it was on radar but it does seem odd they're messing around over the black box.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Not handing over the black box just means they are guilty of murdering more of their own citizens, go Iran!
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They don't care about that, they do that judicially on a daily basis. They'll just lie about it if it was them, and the ability to control the internet in these countries is getting very sophisticated, so it's easier for them to do so.

Mind you it's not infallible, no system is and Iranian's aren't stupid, the establishment is on a thin edge pretty much permanently.
 
Screeeech said:
I don't really know, I think Western air defense systems will easily identify civilian aircraft vs military, probably based on it's transponder signal and some other secret sauce. But I have no idea how any of this stuff works, especially with what Iran has.

However, I wouldn't rule out squads of personnel armed with manpads, which don't have any identification capability at all (I don't think) it literally launches a homing missile at a target, aimed visually by the operator (heatseeker / IR or whatever) and then it's job done.

I imagine this is also a huge botch by the airport, why would they give authorisation for an aircraft to take off in such circumstances, seems like a stupid thing to do.
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High end systems will tap into all kinds of information but even a smaller setup if they have access to an ADS-B receiver or the internet and an ADS-B server can distinguish traffic - though there might be a factor that they simply don't believe it isn't a military aircraft masquerading as civilian. I highly doubt in the middle of a country like Iran if they have semi-autonomous units out with smaller stuff like MANPADS they are also toting around stuff for things like ADS-B though - they might not even have internet access.
 
Refusing to hand over the black box instantly makes Iran look responsible. There is no reason not to unless they have something to hide.
 
Laying it on thick heh can't tell if he is building upto something or bluster before standing back.

EDIT: Talking additional sanctions so looks like trying to row back a bit.
 
Screeeech said:
I don't really know, I think Western air defense systems will easily identify civilian aircraft vs military, probably based on it's transponder signal and some other secret sauce. But I have no idea how any of this stuff works, especially with what Iran has.
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The USS Vincennes would like a word.
 
He's just highlight the terrible Iran deal, I wonder how much international terrorism has been funded by the US tax payer through that.
 
Screeeech said:
I don't really know, I think Western air defense systems will easily identify civilian aircraft vs military, probably based on it's transponder signal and some other secret sauce. But I have no idea how any of this stuff works, especially with what Iran has.

However, I wouldn't rule out squads of personnel armed with manpads, which don't have any identification capability at all (I don't think) it literally launches a homing missile at a target, aimed visually by the operator (heatseeker / IR or whatever) and then it's job done.

I imagine this is also a huge botch by the airport, why would they give authorisation for an aircraft to take off in such circumstances, seems like a stupid thing to do.
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No real knowledge of military systems, but civil uses both primary and secondary radar... primary is the well known "blip on a screen" type dealio, secondary uses the transponder.

I would be stunned to learn that military systems don't also have secondary data overlaid. However transponders aren't perfect and it's possible that one failed and they didn't have a chance to switch to the second since the flight didn't exactly last long. It's even possible they set the wrong squawk or didn't switch it on at all and ATC in Tehran didn't notice while they were on the ground, but that seems unlikely at a major international airport.

Basically though I think it's way to early to jump to conclusions though. Yes it could have been shot down and having a transponder isn't a guarantee that a mistake won't be made, but missiles aren't the only thing capable of downing a jet... hopefully we will find out at some point.
 
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