Doctor Who

steve5424 · 27 Jan 2020 at 00:09

Meddling-Monk said:
Liked it. Enjoyable episode.

Ruth being The Doctor. This is going to ruffle a LOT of feathers. Because it's re-writing in show history and canon of established Who, and unless its resolved WELL, as I said earlier, it'll be torches and pitchforks by the fandom.
It'll especially be seen as just more SJW rubbish if all it does is just make the forgotten Doctor black and female. Already there's issues with how they behave as The Doctor.
Captain Jack returning, good for a laugh, but would have prefered something more from bringing back a well received character.
Silliness of plot is beyond silly. The biggest issue is of course, the Judoon not only counting down, but the countdown then also having a lengthy wait afterwards before even getting the Chronal Cannon ready to fire, instead of firing when the countdown was up.

For now, I would say it's still not elevated itself up from the ditch where it was last season, but it's getting there. But there's nothing strong enough yet on the show that definitively portays this, just lots of "yeah, that's close", but no goals yet on that regard. Will keep watching for now.

don't get carried away though, we still don't know the full story or where they are actually going with it. It could end up something else entirely so might not be rewriting anything. There is no such thing as SJW. It's all in people's minds.

Meddling-Monk · 27 Jan 2020 at 00:26

steve5424 said:
don't get carried away though, we still don't know the full story or where they are actually going with it. It could end up something else entirely so might not be rewriting anything. There is no such thing as SJW. It's all in people's minds.

Don't be silly.

The entire point of having something of topic shown on TV that is out of the ordinary for that show is for discussion, analysis and speculation, and here we are. And if it's in peoples minds, it's there as it was intended to be; by the writers and makers of the show. Otherwise viewers wouldn't come to that conclusion would they?

And if that's NOT the message they want to have been giving, then they've clearly not done their jobs right.

But back to point:

They already hinted at something more that this Doctor doesn't know or remember with the cloth creatures last season. Now we have a Doctor who this Doctor doesn't know or remember. Those are pretty much linked already. Then of course we have this seasons Master mention something about their Galifreyan past too, so... All related. And it's clearly related to the entirety of Who from those related topics.

The issue still remains though, that if this is handled wrong, and thus far we have yet to properly give this seasons production crew the benefit of the doubt, as most are returning from last season and we all know how THAT went; then this will simply be a rewrite of the history and canon of 60 odd years of Who history, and just so they can insert whatever they wanted into the story, BUT, it doesn't work other than to win brownie/SJW points.

Fans have seen this happen somewhere else already; Star Wars, specifically Last Jedi, which darn near collapsed the entire Fandom and set it ablaze. Fans are going to be a lot more tetchy over this, considering how long stuff has remained as accepted history and canon. If it's written so it's purely for winning SJW points, the Who fans WILL be up in arms. But if handled well, I'm fairly certain it'll be fine and accepted.

The issue, again, is there is currently no faith in the current production crew because whislt there's been some improvement, it still carries many of the faults from last season. And nothing thus far released this season shows they have got themselves out of that state. Again, they're getting close, but definitely not there yet.

james.miller · 27 Jan 2020 at 00:34

It's going to be timey wimey. Some sort of event / bad ~~guy~~ girl (probably), who did something to fracture/split/flipflop time itself and the unrememberable doctor is the doctor but from a different timeline / dimension / whatever. probably.

Glad Jack's back. More interesting than any of the companions.

b00merang69 · 27 Jan 2020 at 01:11

Getting desperate now:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertain...st-ever-black-doctor/ar-BBZlyXo?ocid=msedgntp

SkeeterUK · 27 Jan 2020 at 07:01

They ruined dr who with changing so much from the original show, we have women drs and now different ethnic ones. Also a group of varied backgrounds and race joining the dr which is pretty bad. The last good dr series was with the one before the old bloke. Tv shows and films are way too sensitive to the PC groups imo. It needs to stop and go back to un PC the industry. Was more fun.

I bet even an American version would be better than this, especially to get rid of naff common ppl they seem to pick for this dr who series and no go to cheap locations to film but actually do space or other worlds instead of boring (insert common boring uk areas here). Its as bad as torchwood and cardiff i think it was set lol.

Vern1961 · 27 Jan 2020 at 08:15

Yeah, Gloucester... Doesn't even have a decent Spoons! (Or a HMV anymore).

Thinking of the plot two further things come to mind:

SJW thoughts aside, the actress playing the black doctor came across with several times more gravitas than Jodie. Not afraid to pick up a gun if needed and one wonders if the BBC are hedging their bets for a replacement.

Unless she is the offshoot of some alternate timeline, the only logical way to retain canon is if she actually was to precede William Hartnell in lineage.

Otherwise it is the ultimate retcon...

We will see!

Armageus · 27 Jan 2020 at 08:19

Vern1961 said:
Unless she is the offshoot of some alternate timeline, the only logical way to retain canon is if she actually was to precede William Hartnell in lineage.

But the Tardis wouldn't have been stuck as a Police Box at that point

Got to be some kind of alternate timey wimey thing

james.miller · 27 Jan 2020 at 09:03

SkeeterUK said:
They ruined dr who with changing so much from the original show, we have women drs and now different ethnic ones.

Woah i dont know about that. The doctor is about the only role, thanks to regeneration, that could be played by absolutely anybody. Theres nothing wrong with a female doctor, and the doctors skin colour is not important; it just needs to be handled correctly. Ie, preferably not written by anybody at the BBC and not starring 2nd rate soap stars and game show hosts. And im not saying i dont rate Jodie, either - I do - but I think she's been let down by the writing like every other doctor since Ecclestone.

steve5424 · 27 Jan 2020 at 09:10

SkeeterUK said:
They ruined dr who with changing so much from the original show, we have women drs and now different ethnic ones. Also a group of varied backgrounds and race joining the dr which is pretty bad. The last good dr series was with the one before the old bloke. Tv shows and films are way too sensitive to the PC groups imo. It needs to stop and go back to un PC the industry. Was more fun.

I bet even an American version would be better than this, especially to get rid of naff common ppl they seem to pick for this dr who series and no go to cheap locations to film but actually do space or other worlds instead of boring (insert common boring uk areas here). Its as bad as torchwood and cardiff i think it was set lol.

The only 'sensitive' ones are those watching and claiming having different ethnicity actors is crap or ruining a show. That makes you sound pure racist. Ohhh everyone should be a white male actor. Get real, do you look at your neighbors or people in the street like that? That's why people using SJW as a phrase sound so ridiculous and offensive. Shall we go back to the days of black face then? Instead of ethnic actors. Having able bodied people in roles requiring disabled people? The world changes,. So does Doctor Who, it's always been about change.

james.miller · 27 Jan 2020 at 09:12

sideways14a · 27 Jan 2020 at 09:24

IMHO, she (our main doc) is in another reality since regen and doesnt know it yet.
When the Tardis chucked a major paddy back at the start did it not complain about multiple reality's or something?

steve5424 · 27 Jan 2020 at 09:31

I honestly don't think it will be an alternative dimension or anything. Otherwise why would the Master have said what he did about the Timelords lying. Everything they were told is a lie.

peige · 27 Jan 2020 at 09:54

This was first episode in this series that I enjoyed all the way through. Hope they do something good with what we know so far and don't flush it all down the pan like the sun lounger episode a couple of weeks back which I was actually enjoying until the end speech

Steeps · 27 Jan 2020 at 09:58

Looks like it's from the same John Hurt period where the Doctor has chosen not to remember their past and they didn't like to call themselves the Doctor during that period. Did they actually show Hurt fully transform to Ecclestone or was it left open?

steve5424 · 27 Jan 2020 at 10:00

Steeps said:
Looks like it's from the same John Hurt period where the Doctor has chosen not to remember their past and they didn't like to call themselves the Doctor during that period. Did they actually show Hurt fully transform to Ecclestone or was it left open?

This is nothing .like that. The Doctor knew about the war doctor but chose not to remember it. This is something that the Timelords themselves have done and lied to everyone about. The Master even told the Doctor, this in his message after he destroyed Gallifrey.

Rofflay · 27 Jan 2020 at 10:06

b00merang69 said:
Getting desperate now:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertain...st-ever-black-doctor/ar-BBZlyXo?ocid=msedgntp

Surely you seen that coming years ago they had to first have loads of shoehorned in sidekicks i knew it was a matter of time and when i seen this on the news i had a chuckle. So that is James Bond, Moneypenny, Annie, Little Mermaid, Dr Who to name a few... Many more to come which bewilders me when they should follow Black Panther and instead of appropriating another character instead create a new one?

sideways14a · 27 Jan 2020 at 10:06

Naa i still think its a different reality and thats why things are a bit different.

Infidelus · 27 Jan 2020 at 10:13

A better episode than most of the other recent ones. Let down in the middle a bit but otherwise was actually watchable for a change.

arknor · 27 Jan 2020 at 10:14

b00merang69 said:
Getting desperate now:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertain...st-ever-black-doctor/ar-BBZlyXo?ocid=msedgntp

was secretly hoping this meant the black woman was really the doctor and it had all been a bad dream

steve5424 · 27 Jan 2020 at 10:22

sideways14a said:
Naa i still think its a different reality and thats why things are a bit different.

That wouldn't fit with what we know so far.