AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[gpuerrilla]

Very strange points people try to make but your answering the obvious part if you step back. If nvidia weren't selling the 2070 (and above) they would re-evaluate and prices would drop some. The issue is (for consumers that dont want high end pricing) they are still selling and selling well so its not going to change.

The elephant in the room then is although AMD make a good card for a cheaper price, you still have people buying the nvidia flavours. You can thank the advertising and vloggers out there that not only bombard mainstream, recommend them and so much noise it gets drowned out.

People do buy the AMD cards but its few and far between when it comes to volume globally.

 

[ICDP]

I think we've been conditioned by AMD's prior lack of competitiveness and nVidia's capitalisation of their position. the 5700XT die is tiny, 251mm2 (barely bigger than an rx570 @ 232mm2), and I'm sure yields are very good so it must be cheap to produce. But, it's just not priced like that because AMD have no need to. Yes, it's a good price when compared with a 2070 in terms of outright performance when you ignore ray tracing and whatnot - the 5700xt is great at what it does - but then the die is a quarter of the size so.. yeah. It's still the best performance we've ever had at £350 of course, so I'm not knocking that at all.

The problem is that even with AMD pricing the 5700XT well below a 2070 Super, Nvidia are not dropping prices and that means AMD don't need to drop any further. Mindshare means enough people think £50 extra for a 2070S is worth it, but those who are more tech savvy will see the 5700XT as a much better price/perf card. So in the end we don't get a price war because both AMD and Nvidia are happy with the current sales volumes.

 

[james.miller]

The problem is that even with AMD pricing the 5700XT well below a 2070 Super, Nvidia are not dropping prices and that means AMD don't need to drop any further. Mindshare means enough people think £50 extra for a 2070S is worth it, but those who are more tech savvy will see the 5700XT as a much better price/perf card. So in the end we don't get a price war because both AMD and Nvidia are happy with the current sales volumes.

Yeah exactly that

 

[EastCoastHandle]

I think maybe 4 years ago, the same could well have been said about the CPU market. Yet here we are with the tables having turned, and mindshare starting to move across.
AMD played a brilliant move there - their products were very competitive in terms of performance, and price. In some cases the Intel product was the quicker on the benchmark, but then when it came to pricing, it really wasn't worth the extra money over the AMD product.

Looking at what nvidia are charging here, I suspect the AMD may well be angling to play the exact same game. If the flagship nvidia card is 900, and something that is trading blows with it costs 600 (say), then I know exactly which one I'd be buying

AMD has gained a lot of mind share in the last few years. If the rumors are true that big navi is faster then 2080ti and on par with this 3000 series it's only going gain more traction.

At that point AMD can compete on price. Imo they would lower it. Making Nvidia create another tier that's priced out of reach for the majority making it a fail. The majority won't pay more when they can play the same games on AMD or console for less. The days of FPS beyond what's needed have come to an end, lol.

 

[Twinz]

My Reverb headset is the droid I have been looking for in VR. If someone makes card that can run 4 of these at once and tries to sell it for too much money, I won't buy it because I have no use for it and I don't shop for "bragging rights".

I want a card that can run it smoothly with eye-candy turned up...now and in the near-term future. Give me a decent price on that, and I'll hand over my money.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

. Give me a decent price on that, and I'll hand over my money.

I think AMD will deliver on that front. With RDNA 3 things will be different as that's rumored to be the chiplet era.

 

[LePhuronn]

hopefully amd can add in missing features

* proper drivers
* nvenc
* dlss

If by adding DLSS you mean giving sufficient raw GPU power to not need vaseline-based upscaling then I fully agree AMD should add DLSS...

 

[LePhuronn]

With RDNA 3 things will be different as that's rumored to be the chiplet era.

Competing with Hopper and Intel's tiles.

Hell, apparently Intel are closer to true MCM than anybody else, but their interconnect is supposedly slow, hot and hungry (in a continuing Intel theme) which is crippling their scalability; the tiles scale amazingly, the interconnect trashes everything.

 

[TNA]

If by adding DLSS you mean giving sufficient raw GPU power to not need vaseline-based upscaling then I fully agree AMD should add DLSS...

How dare you.. DLSS provides better than native image quality! Didn't you learn anything from Melmac and Grim5??

 

[LePhuronn]

Didn't you learn anything from Melmac and Grim5??

No, I have enough ludicrous tripe of my own before I start absorbing that of others

Although I'd love it if AMD released one of their marketing "jokes" about the inclusion of VBU technology in RDNA2

#poordlss

 

[TNA]

No, I have enough ludicrous tripe of my own before I start absorbing that of others

Haha

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Competing with Hopper and Intel's tiles.

Hell, apparently Intel are closer to true MCM than anybody else, but their interconnect is supposedly slow, hot and hungry (in a continuing Intel theme) which is crippling their scalability; the tiles scale amazingly, the interconnect trashes everything.

Once they internally get things in line they will start firing on all cylinders. From what I was last told (a few years ago) they still might have 2 separate GPU departments: intergrated and dedicated competing against each other, lol.

 

[Grim5]

If by adding DLSS you mean giving sufficient raw GPU power to not need vaseline-based upscaling then I fully agree AMD should add DLSS...

That would require approx 200% more gpu performance than AMD currently has.
Hate all you want, but AMD is missing a lot of features in its drivers and pipeline

 

[Calin Banc]

Adrenaline is modern has everything that afterburner has built into it and all the streaming and recording, plus all the geforce experience stuff and doesn't look like Windows 95 like nvidias

And many people will just swap their nvidia old card for an amd without deleting the old drivers first causing issues such as black screen, no wake on sleep etc

Installed newer card from the competition, installed drivers (without deleting the old ones), all worked well. Works well still even going from Sandy Bridge to Ryzen without installing the OS. Just plug in all (motherboard, CPU, RAM new + old drivers, PSU, fans, etc.), put as boot the same drive and Windows updated what it had to.

The elephant in the room then is although AMD make a good card for a cheaper price, you still have people buying the nvidia flavours. You can thank the advertising and vloggers out there that not only bombard mainstream, recommend them and so much noise it gets drowned out.

People do buy the AMD cards but its few and far between when it comes to volume globally.

You can blame AMD too for their stance, marketing and launches. Price was the only good thing they've had (at least with Ryzen they've had performance as well in certain scenarios over Intel, not so much over nVIDIA), but just price (even that wasn't always that good), is not good enough in the long run if you don't build an image. 5xxx series launch was pretty messy. $449 for the 5700XT?!

How dare you.. DLSS provides better than native image quality! Didn't you learn anything from Melmac and Grim5??

Not better, but in Control is good enough so I don't notice it during gameplay. For sure I would pay extra 50, perhaps even 100 euros for a card that could offer that in every game. 61fps+/- vs. 102fps +/- (in a certain point), yeah, I'll take the former everyday.

 

[gpuerrilla]

You can blame AMD too for their stance, marketing and launches. Price was the only good thing they've had (at least with Ryzen they've had performance as well in certain scenarios over Intel, not so much over nVIDIA), but just price (even that wasn't always that good), is not good enough in the long run if you don't build an image. 5xxx series launch was pretty messy. $449 for the 5700XT?!

Yes the 5xxx launches were a mess have to agree, particularly the BIOS flashing of the 5600's just to counter nvidias drop in price for that bracket.

 

[Jacky60]

2080TI performance +15-20% would nail it for AMD. If they try and match Nvidia on price and performance AMD will simply get hammered. They need to be pricing their GPUs similarly to CPUs against the competition. If not quite as fast then substantially cheaper to gain traction and market share.

 

[LePhuronn]

That would require approx 200% more gpu performance than AMD currently has.
Hate all you want, but AMD is missing a lot of features in its drivers and pipeline

200% Hardly. And I would rather AMD and Nvidia get their **** together and offer proper advancement in their processing tech rather than delude people into accepting ****-poor image quality through upscaling ******** into thinking it's the second coming of Christ.

It's not "hate", it's not accepting corners being cut for the stupid money I'm expected to pay. And I'm pretty sure what you think are "missing" features is just ******** gimmicks Nvidia wouldn't need to cram down people's throats if they actually delivered proper performance uplifts.

It's funny though how proponents of DLSS bleat on about how AMD are missing this "killer" feature, yet totally forget RIS and FidelityFX exist and are superior...and still ****. But still, if you're prepared to pay hundreds of pounds more than you should for Nvidia's vaseline-o-vision then far be it from me to stop you. I'm going to buy a card that can actually render my chosen resolution natively. That could well be an Nvidia card.

 

[JediFragger]

it's the second coming of Christ.

Language Timothy!!!

 

[JediFragger]

yet totally forget RIS and FidelityFX exist

Massively supported in games the last I checked...

 

[Calin Banc]

I'm going to buy a card that can actually render my chosen resolution natively. That could well be an Nvidia card.

Having a setting giving a massive performance boost, like DLSS, while sacrificing image quality in a relatively small way is no different than any other setting that you keep it either off or at a low level in order to get more performance (I'm not talking here about the awful first implementations).