AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

gpuerrilla · 25 Jun 2020 at 07:46

He's right though isnt he? These features are cutting corners to cheat in some way rather than asking you to pay money for their strides in advancements.

Calin Banc · 25 Jun 2020 at 08:24

Th0nt said:
He's right though isnt he? These features are cutting corners to cheat in some way rather than asking you to pay money for their strides in advancements.

Not necessarily. There aren't going to be GPUs soon that can do 16k, 32k (or whatever the human eye res is), at 240fps+, while doing full ray/path tracing. You're always gonna be hard limited in some way or another.

So the advantages would be:

1) more performance available than anything on the market can do at native resolution;
2) you can keep your card for longer as it offers a greater performance.

Of course, and I repeat myself, this is only valid as the tech covers all resolutions (standard 16:9, but also ultra wide and multi monitor ones) and all games.

LePhuronn · 25 Jun 2020 at 11:01

Calin Banc said:
2) you can keep your card for longer as it offers a greater performance.

Of all the reasons Nvidia had for developing DLSS, I can be pretty confident in saying depriving themselves of future sales by offering product longevity is not one of them.

LePhuronn · 25 Jun 2020 at 11:04

Calin Banc said:
Having a setting giving a massive performance boost, like DLSS, while sacrificing image quality in a relatively small way is no different than any other setting that you keep it either off or at a low level in order to get more performance (I'm not talking here about the awful first implementations).

Disabling high-resolution shadows and turning the image into a blurred mess are not the same thing. Opting to turn down settings is not the same thing as relying on an image-crushing cheat to replace what should have been in silicon in the damn first place.

Phixsator · 25 Jun 2020 at 11:54

@LePhuronn
I don't have a problem with DLSS existing. The more optional features the better in my book. My personal problem with DLSS is how it's going to be used in the press and marketing. I'm dead certain Nvidia is going to try and push DLSS as a way to benchmark against the competition who is running native res causing a skewed and dishonest result. I can just see the marketing machine full at work: "DLSS, free performance, the best image quality". We will for sure see this if Nvidia somehow manages to lose the performance crown(doubt it but one can hope for a bit of a shakeup).

LoadsaMoney · 25 Jun 2020 at 11:57

Thers nothing wrong with DLSS, AMDs got Radeon Boost, which continually lowers the res while you play, depending on how aggressive you set it.

Illuminist · 25 Jun 2020 at 11:58

You will be pleasantly suprised by navi

gpuerrilla · 25 Jun 2020 at 12:05

Calin Banc said:
Not necessarily. There aren't going to be GPUs soon that can do 16k, 32k (or whatever the human eye res is), at 240fps+, while doing full ray/path tracing. You're always gonna be hard limited in some way or another.

Well some of these features are actually only meant to benefit people that bought weak cards in the stack. This means to keep high framerate they are processing less through either detecting fast mouse movement or one of the features discussed. Are they doing this for the CS-Source player? I think their intentions are less honorable than that. It buys them time as they have hit a wall on the hardware or an oversight - yet they still want to charge the high prices on a refresh for example.

Chuk_Chuk · 25 Jun 2020 at 12:26

Illuminist said:
You will be pleasantly suprised by navi

Do you work in the industry? :confused:

bru · 25 Jun 2020 at 12:42

The thing with DLSS is that NVIDIA themselves do the heavy lifting so to speak. They do all the training on their own supercomputers.
Now with what ever AMD come up with to combat it, will no out be relying on third parties to do the training, therefore making it dead in the water.

Of course this is only my opinion and as we know opinions are like butholes, every body has one and very often they are full of crap.

shankly1985 · 25 Jun 2020 at 13:46

bru said:
The thing with DLSS is that NVIDIA themselves do the heavy lifting so to speak. They do all the training on their own supercomputers.
Now with what ever AMD come up with to combat it, will no out be relying on third parties to do the training, therefore making it dead in the water.

Of course this is only my opinion and as we know opinions are like butholes, every body has one and very often they are full of crap.

They will just use DirectML and let the devs handle it.

Calin Banc · 25 Jun 2020 at 14:19

LePhuronn said:
Of all the reasons Nvidia had for developing DLSS, I can be pretty confident in saying depriving themselves of future sales by offering product longevity is not one of them.

Happy "accident"/consequence for the end user.

LePhuronn said:
Disabling high-resolution shadows and turning the image into a blurred mess are not the same thing. Opting to turn down settings is not the same thing as relying on an image-crushing cheat to replace what should have been in silicon in the damn first place.

Control is not a blurry mess.

Th0nt said:
Well some of these features are actually only meant to benefit people that bought weak cards in the stack.

I play in 5760x1080 (about 75% of 4k) and a RTX2080 (which boots pretty high) is barely enough for 60fps with more or less sacrifices, depending per game. If DLSS would be ubiquitous in all games, that will offer enough performance (based on how it scales in control), more than 2080ti and for sure will not necessitate an upgrade that soon.

So yeah, it's not just something for the lower end simply because the top end has not reached the peak of visual quality yet.

Joxeon · 25 Jun 2020 at 14:28

Calin Banc said:
I play in 5760x1080 (about 75% of 4k) and a RTX2080 (which boots pretty high) is barely enough for 60fps with more or less sacrifices, depending per game. If DLSS would be ubiquitous in all games, that will offer enough performance (based on how it scales in control), more than 2080ti and for sure will not necessitate an upgrade that soon.

So yeah, it's not just something for the lower end simply because the top end has not reached the peak of visual quality yet.

Until nvidia bring out a new gen of cards and cut DLSS support to the old gen which will leave a lot of people with a potato of a card.

random_matt · 25 Jun 2020 at 14:43

So when will AMD announce/preview these? Do they have a show coming up?

Illuminist · 25 Jun 2020 at 14:57

Some places report the 30th of September for amd announcements

EastCoastHandle · 25 Jun 2020 at 15:28

Wow, RDNA2 must be serious business with all this talk of Dlss.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it beat the 3080.

bru · 25 Jun 2020 at 16:49

shankly1985 said:
They will just use DirectML and let the devs handle it.

Yes because loads of Game developers have super computers tucked away in their basements to use for training the neural networks.
I cannot see NVidia sharing their neural network training data for others to use and why should they.

Illuminist · 25 Jun 2020 at 16:49

bru said:
Yes because loads of Game developers have super computers tucked away in their basements to use for training the neural networks.
I cannot see NVidia sharing their neural network training data for others to use and why should they.

Amd have their own...

LePhuronn · 25 Jun 2020 at 18:16

bru said:
Yes because loads of Game developers have super computers tucked away in their basements to use for training the neural networks.
I cannot see NVidia sharing their neural network training data for others to use and why should they.

But wasn't Nvidia doing AI training for DLSS entirely the point? Sure, they had servers for sale so game studios could do their own training if they wished, but Nvidia did have a training service.

Or did all that fall flat on its face?

shankly1985 · 25 Jun 2020 at 18:59

bru said:
Yes because loads of Game developers have super computers tucked away in their basements to use for training the neural networks.
I cannot see NVidia sharing their neural network training data for others to use and why should they.

Because Microsoft also want devs to use it for the Xbox lol why develop something you just going to hide away the data?

Come on think, Microsoft is creating DirectX Ultimate for a reason.
They want the best out of the new console and anyone building for Xbox is building for PC in fact the PC will be main focus because of the windows 10 and up to date system specs of the xbox series X
Build for the highest and tone down for Console saves on time, plus the fact all games are built on a PC anyway.

If you think for one second Amd isn't working along side Microsoft and Sony to get the most out of Ryzen and Navi you need to wake up and see the bigger picture here.