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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

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I think it's clear AMD have a mindshare issue in the GPU market... but from their strides in the CPU market it's also clear this can be overcome.

While only a small percentage buy high end cards, you can't underestimate the reputation and marketing value of having high performing cards being reviewed and recommended. Brand image is important, it's why some won't buy a skoda over a VW even though they are practically the same cars.

If AMD want to start winning mindshare back for their brand in the GPU space, they need to compete in the high end as well. We know they can make good mid range cards, so that isn't the issue.... why does the 2060S and 2070S outsell the 5600XT/5700XT? It's not because they are bad cards or that they don't stack up to the competition, it's because they are currently viewed as being the inferior brand by the mass market.
 
All that matters really is whatever they come out with, their marketing is crystal clear in how they beat their comparable NV competition. They don't necessarily need a 3090 equivalent if their 3080 equivalent is outstanding. They just need to make it clear what each card is aimed at, such as the best for 1080, 1440, 4k & ultra-wide's etc. If it turns out NV have the fastest card in the 3090, so what, if the marketing is done right they will best each level below that and it will become clear that NV isn't the fastest overall and only in the top tier card that most people aren't looking to spend that amount on.

There were some rumours that AMD was looking at revising the power draw for Navi so they could position themselves as the more power efficient option. What if their Navi line up smashes what NV announced, there's no need for AMD to release something screaming it's nuts off if they don't need to. Better to keep something in reserve for a counter release of something to also compete with Supers/Ti's.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
Buildzoid really does make the best videos

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His power estimate of the complete GPU package in the XSX is 180W based on the VRMs and clockspeed of the CPU.

That's quite a bit higher than the 130-140W estimate that's commonly mentioned in this thread that I felt was low considering the circa 300W PSU.
 
GAC said:
If they wernt planning to release until nov or later due to console launches and being under contract with a non compete from sony and ms with a new product we could be waiting until december or even the new year. which honestly would be devastating for amd unless they have something that is genuinely a HUGE step up from what they currently have.
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The non compete crossed my mind but AMD have specifically stated RDNA2 cards would be released before the consoles. Maybe it's a paper launch with the actual release in December which means they keep to their original timeline of releasing in 2020.
 
five8five said:
His power estimate of the complete GPU package in the XSX is 180W based on the VRMs and clockspeed of the CPU.

That's quite a bit higher than the 130-140W estimate that's commonly mentioned in this thread that I felt was low considering the circa 300W PSU.
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The XBox Series X has a 200 Watt TDP, that's GPU + CPU + GDDR6.

VRMs or PSU does not = the components power consumption, i don't know why he did this, its a bit daft.
 
humbug said:
The XBox Series X has a 200 Watt TDP, that's GPU + CPU + GDDR6.

VRMs or PSU does not = the components power consumption, i don't know why he did this, its a bit daft.
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He's got a point though, the VRMs are significantly upgraded.

He's factoring in all the components needed for a GPU, so obviously an APU using shared components would use less power than a separate CPU and GPU.
 
five8five said:
He's got a point though, the VRMs are significantly upgraded.

He's factoring in all the components needed for a GPU, so obviously an APU using shared components would use less power than a separate CPU and GPU.
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My GPU has 375 watts of total board power capabilities, its no where near that, it will never use anywhere near that no matter what i do to it, what it does mean is less stress on the components = better stability.

There is a much easier way to do this.

The 5700XT has a TDP of 225 Watt's, the GPU uses 190 Watts, take off a safety margin that's 25 Watts for the GDDR6.

XBox Series X has a 200 Watt TDP. it has 16GB GDDR6 but they are probably 8X 2GB IC's, 10GB of that is running at 560GB/s, this compared to my 450GB/s, the remaining 6 is running at 336GB/s, the whole thing probably about 25 Watts.

That leaves you about 175 Watts for the GPU + CPU, what a 3.9Ghz Ryzen 3700X? 35 Watts? Leaves you with 140 Watts for the GPU.

AMD said RDNA2 would be +50% PPW, lets say the Series X is 20% faster than a 5700XT, with 30% more shaders but lower clocked it should be around that. that bring's the XBox Series X GPU to 220 Watts if it was RDNA1. -50% = 110 Watt's.
 
humbug said:
AMD said RDNA2 would be +50% PPW, lets say the Series X is 20% faster than a 5700XT, with 30% more shaders but lower clocked it should be around that. that bring's the XBox Series X GPU to 220 Watts if it was RDNA1. -50% = 110 Watt's.
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Do you want to correct your maths error yourself or would you prefer I do it? ;)
 
Wulfster said:
Peddlers dream. In all seriousness though, really hoping AMD has something special this time
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If they make Running trainers I'd bite MAybe as im killing one pair of Muzunos every 5 months wuith amout of miles i do lol HATE BIKES AND BIKERS so deffo not for me :D
 
five8five said:
He's got a point though, the VRMs are significantly upgraded.

He's factoring in all the components needed for a GPU, so obviously an APU using shared components would use less power than a separate CPU and GPU.
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TBH, this sort of analysis is good to +-30%.

For all we know MS have given AMD a particular thermal budget and a beefy VRM was required to reduce dissipation. I've seen VRMs capable of 1000A+ that were designed for 200A loads entirely due to thermal considerations.
Alternatively there are dynamic considerations on different timescales, e.g. 10ms, 1ms, 1us, that are factored into the VRM design. Might be that the APU has high dynamic consumption while maintaining relatively low constant consumption.

OR it's just a hungry device and AMD cannot compete due to thermals. At this point there's no useful information, so may as well just wait for the release.
 
five8five said:
The non compete crossed my mind but AMD have specifically stated RDNA2 cards would be released before the consoles. Maybe it's a paper launch with the actual release in December which means they keep to their original timeline of releasing in 2020.
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IF theres no compete clauses from ms and sony im assuming mid to late october for big navi, then we have the 5000 range refresh which was announced ages ago using rdna2 which is due post big navi, that could be next spring now for all we know.

amd really do need to step it up with their gpu range release dates or as someone joked it could be 2021 for big navi. which i really hope doesnt happen.
 
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