AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

humbug · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:06

Sargatanas2511 said:
I agree it would probably be around 5% faster but it would be pretty close. But my point is how much more can AMD offer top and how realistic is it that they can close that additional gap to a 3080?

If they have an 80CU part at 2.2Ghz I fail to see how it couldn't match a 3080 to be honest, with IPC improvements etc that are expected.
If the top end is 64CU at 2.3-2.4Ghz then It would likely fall about 5-10% slower than a 3080 in my opinion.

I just fail to see a scenario where AMD are not at least reasonably close to a 3080 in terms of raw raster perf but you never know, they might completely drop the ball.

Agreed. 80 CU Big Navi is all but officially confirmed at this point and i can't see how its not at least as fast as a 3080.

gpuerrilla · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:10

Sargatanas2511 said:
I agree it would probably be around 5% faster but it would be pretty close. But my point is how much more can AMD offer top and how realistic is it that they can close that additional gap to a 3080?

Listen, I will be straight up. If this doomsayer case comes to fruition, not only will I be disappointed, but also I still have the 3080 or 3070 as an option. Then theres just get a PS5 and forget about GPU for another year. But also if it is a flop being slightly better than a 3070, then if it only costs £389, Im still interested!

Soapysage · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:11

Th0nt said:
It would be better than a 2080Ti and more efficient.

Even a 40CU would probably do it, if you upgraded the 5700XT, a 40CU RDNA1 card to RDNA2, taking into account the 50% perf/watt gain which going by some on twitter/youtube, it's more like 60% or higher, that RDNA2 40CU at the same power draw of the 5700XT would beat the 2080Ti at 4k, so the 40CU Navi 22 for example would compete with the 3070, that leaves all of Navi 21, it's full 80CUs, probably two cut down versions of 72 and 64, to take the fight to the 3090 and 3080. The 3090 is about 55% faster than a 2080Ti at 4k. So if a 40CU RDNA2 can compete with the 2080Ti/beat it, then an 80CU version at perfect scaling would be 100% faster than a 2080Ti, so it then just depends on how actual real world effects that scaling. The 3090 has about 20% more cores than the 3080, and using techpowerups relative performance summary at 4k, shows it's about 18% faster. So actual real world scaling versus core counts at least in Ampere's case isn't too far off. If RDNA2 scales just as well then we're in for a complete demolishing of Ampere.

gpuerrilla · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:12

Soapysage said:
Even a 40CU would probably do it, if you upgraded the 5700XT, a 40CU RDNA1 card to RDNA2, taking into account the 50% perf/watt gain which going by some on twitter/youtube, it's more like 60% or higher, that RDNA2 40CU at the same power draw of the 5700XT would beat the 2080Ti at 4k, so the 40CU Navi 22 for example would compete with the 3070, that leaves all of Navi 21, it's full 80CUs, probably two cut down versions of 72 and 64, to take the fight to the 3090 and 3080. The 3090 is about 55% faster than a 2080Ti at 4k. So if a 40CU RDNA2 can compete with the 2080Ti/beat it, then an 80CU version at perfect scaling would be 100% faster than a 2080Ti, so it then just depends on how actual real world effects that scaling. The 3090 has about 20% more cores than the 3080, and using techpowerups relative performance summary at 4k, shows it's about 18% faster. So actual real world scaling versus core counts at least in Ampere's case isn't too far off. If RDNA2 scales just as well then we're in for a complete demolishing of Ampere.

Correct, everything is pointing to a good battle with the 3080+ and navi21. nVidia dropped the prices as they know this, absolutely know this, no doubt about it.

Sargatanas2511 · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:18

Th0nt said:
Listen, I will be straight up. If this doomsayer case comes to fruition, not only will I be disappointed, but also I still have the 3080 or 3070 as an option. Then theres just get a PS5 and forget about GPU for another year. But also if it is a flop being slightly better than a 3070, then if it only costs £389, Im still interested!

That's why I don't understand why people rushed to buy the 3080/90 so fast. What is the damage in waiting to see what the competition has to offer? It's amazing what bias toward a company or the need to have the best and have it right now can do.

Nablaoperator · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:19

humbug said:
The Radeon 5700 series is no more, its EOL. it will not live on as a lower end GPU.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-radeon-rx-5700-reaches-end-of-life-eol-production-stopped/

Out of the 5700XT line up the Powercolor Red Devil is the only one left.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pc-components/graphics-cards/amd/radeon-rx-5700-xt-series

I am jumping to conclusions here .. but does that mean AIBs have started manufacturing the RX6xxx series?

Shiari · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:21

Sargatanas2511 said:
That's why I don't understand why people rushed to buy the 3080/90 so fast. What is the damage in waiting to see what the competition has to offer? It's amazing what bias toward a company or the need to have the best and have it right now can do.

For me it wasn't getting the order so fast, it was getting it at an acceptable price as previous releases that initial RRP has only gone up and never came down. I'm okay with it being a preorder, to make up my mind and possibly cancel that when Navi launches.

humbug · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:25

Soapysage said:
Even a 40CU would probably do it, if you upgraded the 5700XT, a 40CU RDNA1 card to RDNA2, taking into account the 50% perf/watt gain which going by some on twitter/youtube, it's more like 60% or higher, that RDNA2 40CU at the same power draw of the 5700XT would beat the 2080Ti at 4k, so the 40CU Navi 22 for example would compete with the 3070, that leaves all of Navi 21, it's full 80CUs, probably two cut down versions of 72 and 64, to take the fight to the 3090 and 3080. The 3090 is about 55% faster than a 2080Ti at 4k. So if a 40CU RDNA2 can compete with the 2080Ti/beat it, then an 80CU version at perfect scaling would be 100% faster than a 2080Ti, so it then just depends on how actual real world effects that scaling. The 3090 has about 20% more cores than the 3080, and using techpowerups relative performance summary at 4k, shows it's about 18% faster. So actual real world scaling versus core counts at least in Ampere's case isn't too far off. If RDNA2 scales just as well then we're in for a complete demolishing of Ampere.

Yeah, with a 10% IPC gain at 2.3Ghz (+400Mhz: +21%) its closer to the 2080TI than a 3070 will be, Nvidia know this which is why its been delayed and suddenly a 3070TI has appeared on the internet from no where.

GeForce RTX 3080 – 68 SM

GeForce RTX 3070 Ti – 48 SM
GeForce RTX 3070 – 46 SM

68 SM's / 48SM's = 1.41 (+41%) the 68 SM 3080 is 32% faster than the 2080TI at best, IE at 4K, the 3080 has 41% more shaders than the 3070TI.
It has 48% more shaders than the 3070.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidi...to-29th-oct-a-day-after-navi-2x-announcement/

Nablaoperator said:
I am jumping to conclusions here .. but does that mean AIBs have started manufacturing the RX6xxx series?

Very likely.

gpuerrilla · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:26

Nablaoperator said:
I am jumping to conclusions here .. but does that mean AIBs have started manufacturing the RX6xxx series?

Its rhetorical, it would be dead certain they are.

Nablaoperator · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:31

What's stopping the leaks ?

TNA · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:36

Th0nt said:
It's my money I will spend it how I want!!!!

Nablaoperator said:
What's stopping the leaks ?

I hear Lisa Su has a good bladder

Tiny_D · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:50

Just a thought, the current 3080's are quite hamstrung on overclocking, the Navi 21 stock might trade blows with the 3080 but come a good custom cooler Im wondering if there will be much more room to overclock the AMD cards thus making it top the 3080?

humbug · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:52

Tiny_D said:
Just a thought, the current 3080's are quite hamstrung on overclocking, the Navi 21 stock might trade blows with the 3080 but come a good custom cooler Im wondering if there will be much more room to overclock the AMD cards thus making it top the 3080?

I doubt they will have any more overclocking headroom than the 3080, these days GPU's seem to be pushed near the edge out of the box.

Greebo · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:53

Tiny_D said:
Just a thought, the current 3080's are quite hamstrung on overclocking, the Navi 21 stock might trade blows with the 3080 but come a good custom cooler Im wondering if there will be much more room to overclock the AMD cards thus making it top the 3080?

Especially if the card is only 250W................

gpuerrilla · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:54

Im more interested in how they are not going to starve the memory bandwidth.

Shiari · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:55

humbug said:
I doubt they will have any more overclocking headroom than the 3080, these days GPU's seem to be pushed near the edge out of the box.

I think it would be difficult not making it have more overclocking headroom than the 30 series so far, they really aren't overclockers delight, are they?

Greebo · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:57

Shiari said:
I think it would be difficult not making it have more overclocking headroom than the 30 series so far, they really aren't overclockers delight, are they?

nope. A lot of of the lower end pre OC versions are at their max overclocks anyway. Even with 2080ti OC cards there was always more juice in the tank.

Tiny_D · 2 Oct 2020 at 13:59

Greebo said:
Especially if the card is only 250W................

Could be my 2pm rum induced hangover from last night but i'm sure I was watching a youtube (yer I know youtube the fountain of truth and knowledge...) but the Nav 21 is coming in @300w+ or not far behind the 3080?

I have been wrong before I suspect I will be again!

humbug · 2 Oct 2020 at 14:04

Shiari said:
I think it would be difficult not making it have more overclocking headroom than the 30 series so far, they really aren't overclockers delight, are they?

True...

Soapysage · 2 Oct 2020 at 14:18

Tiny_D said:
Could be my 2pm rum induced hangover from last night but i'm sure I was watching a youtube (yer I know youtube the fountain of truth and knowledge...) but the Nav 21 is coming in @300w+ or not far behind the 3080?

I have been wrong before I suspect I will be again!

Then there's others such as Not An Apple Fan, on youtube, suggesting Navi 21 might beat the 3090. It seems like youtubers that cover the leaks/rumours are split, one half suggesting it's only close to the 3080, not beating it at 4k but beating it at 1080p/1440p and then the other half suggesting it might even beat the 3090. It seems me to like they've been given information about different specs of Navi 21 or Navi 22, for the actual hardware SKUS there's Navi 21 XTX, XT and XL, XTX will be full die, XT will be cut down slightly, XL cut down again, there's actually a fourth but no one is sure exactly what it is yet. Then there's Navi 22 which only has the one SKU currently. They could all be getting small bits of information about any of those. I.e those hearing it'll beat the 3090 might be getting info about the XTX sku, whereas others hearing it won't beat the 3080 but get close might only be hearing about the XL or even Navi 22 etc.