AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[chris85oc]

Remind us what games these 2060s can run then, and what fps they will achieve running it?

You already know current gen games with RT and the respective performance. It’s perfectly playable and with DLSS even moreso. Consoles will also offer a performance mode RT off, and an RT mode with way lower perf. Not sure why anyone would expect RT to be free or cost almost no perf.

Also all the major ‘next-gen’ games that arent console exclusives will also come to PC, with raytracing and Rx5xxx users wont be able to enable those settings whereas turing users will.

Don’t see why its so hard for some of you to admit that rx5xxx users got shafted by AMD in regards to RT. Sure if you personally dont care about it good for you, but having the option to turn it on, even with the performance hit ( which is amazing as it is considering 3 years ago no one even thought it would run realtime anytime soon, even for partial rendering ) for a mere 50-100 euro - the difference between a rx5xxx and its respective turing equal is nothing compared to having to buy a completely new RDNA2 gpu 2 years later.

 

[Howling]

Remind me why turing users have to upgrade please. Even rtx2060s will be able to run RT at console level, maybe with a 90% res scaling or so.

I never said "turing users," I said nVidia users. Look at how many people even HAVE a turing card... very very small percentage if steam surveys are any indication. So yeah, most nVidia users will have to upgrade to have console parity too.

But as to why even Turing users may have to upgrade; because there's more to the gpus than just Ray Tracing? It's been said that the Ray Tracing performance on the consoles is around the 2060's ... that says nothing about the rasterization or anything else. Not to mention that these brand new, unreleased, undeveloped for consoles are matching the 2060's RT after 2 years of them optimising for Turing, so you're at the best-case-scenario for the 2060 at this point....

 

[KiNgPiN83]

You already know current gen games with RT and the respective performance. It’s perfectly playable and with DLSS even moreso.

However all the major ‘next-gen’ games that arent console exclusives will also come to PC, with raytracing and Rx5xxx users wont be able to enable those settings whereas turing users will.

Don’t see why its so hard for some of you to admit that rx5xxx users got shafted by AMD in regards to RT.

Surely they‘d only have been shafted if AMD said they’d have RT but then the cards but then went back on it. So you would’ve known there was no RT at the point of buying the 5x00 cards?

 

[gpuerrilla]

You already know current gen games with RT and the respective performance. It’s perfectly playable and with DLSS even moreso.

However all the major ‘next-gen’ games that arent console exclusives will also come to PC, with raytracing and Rx5xxx users wont be able to enable those settings whereas turing users will.

Don’t see why its so hard for some of you to admit that rx5xxx users got shafted by AMD in regards to RT. Sure if you personally dont care about it good for you, but having the option to turn it on, even with the performance hit ( which is amazing as it is considering 3 years ago no one even thought it would run realtime anytime soon, even for partial rendering ) for a mere 50-100 euro - the difference between a rx5xxx and its respective turing equal is nothing compared to having to buy a completely new RDNA2 gpu 2 years later.

The 5700XT is a faster card than 2060/Super. Why would people buying a card over a year ago that lets face it is mid-range (from both companies) think that playing 'next-gen' unreleased games in 2021 to unlock their ray tracing horsepower in mind? Again I make a point what games are these people missing out on?

You seem to be pretty deluded that the future games can even run on these weak cards, so if anything 2060/super users will be shafted as they will need to upgrade to have playable games.

 

[chris85oc]

Surely they‘d only have been shafted if AMD said they’d have RT but then the cards but then went back on it. So you would’ve known there was no RT at the point of buying the 5x00 cards?

People kept harping on about raytracing and how its a Nvidia gimmick like phsyx and will be dropped etcetc and saying dont bother with turing just buy rx5xxx .

Suddenly AMD also starts supporting it in both nextgen consoles and gpus. No longer and NVIDIA gimmick huh?

 

[chris85oc]

The 5700XT is a faster card than 2060/Super. Why would people buying a card over a year ago that lets face it is mid-range (from both companies) think that playing 'next-gen' unreleased games in 2021 to unlock their ray tracing horsepower in mind? Again I make a point what games are these people missing out on?

You seem to be pretty deluded that the future games can even run on these weak cards, so if anything 2060/super users will be shafted as they will need to upgrade to have playable games.

Wanna bet? Multiplat and xbox first party games ( since they come to pc as well )will run at same perf on 2060s at console level settings with RT on. Worst case scenario vs XSX you might need to drop res scaling to 85-90% or better yet enable DLSS if present.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Suddenly AMD also starts supporting it in both nextgen consoles and gpus. No longer and NVIDIA gimmick huh?

Drop the nvidia defence brigade stance then, ray tracing is not an nvidia thing. It should get adoption, all the generations so far are just not capable to run it in its desired form, this is why nvidia has to rely on its DLSS to bail it out.

 

[Howling]

People kept harping on about raytracing and how its a Nvidia gimmick like phsyx and will be dropped etcetc and saying dont bother with turing just buy rx5xxx .

Suddenly AMD also starts supporting it in both nextgen consoles and gpus. No longer and NVIDIA gimmick huh?

What? No one was saying RT was a gimmick... at least no one with at least the absolute minimum tech knowledge. Conversely, I praised nVidia for pushing the tech even though the 20x0 series would have by far the most useless implementation of it - but it was a necessary step to get people on board with the idea that real time ray tracing was now becoming an option. It's one of the few things I can definitely praise nVidia for.

 

[Satchfanuk]

When will we see benchmarks/reviews?

I expect to see some benchmarks on Thursday but these will be aimed at showing Zen 3 performance rather than RDNA 2.

However, that being said, I would be very surprised if they don't use the new GPUs to make Zen 3 look even better.

 

[Satchfanuk]

People kept harping on about raytracing and how its a Nvidia gimmick like phsyx and will be dropped etcetc and saying dont bother with turing just buy rx5xxx .

Suddenly AMD also starts supporting it in both nextgen consoles and gpus. No longer and NVIDIA gimmick huh?

RTX is a gimmick but Microsoft DXR upon which it's base and which is part of DX12 Ultimate is not, and this is what AMD will be using.

I'm not saying Nvidia will drop RTX as they seem to have managed to get everyone to think that raytracing is RTX and as a marketing tool, they will keep it going as long as they can.

 

[chris85oc]

What? No one was saying RT was a gimmick... at least no one with at least the absolute minimum tech knowledge. Conversely, I praised nVidia for pushing the tech even though the 20x0 series would have by far the most useless implementation of it - but it was a necessary step to get people on board with the idea that real time ray tracing was now becoming an option. It's one of the few things I can definitely praise nVidia for.

Didn’t mean you specifically. But there were plenty of people, both here, r/amd and other places repeating the same tripe.

 

[BriT]

I expect to see some benchmarks on Thursday but these will be aimed at showing Zen 3 performance rather than RDNA 2.

However, that being said, I would be very surprised if they don't use the new GPUs to make Zen 3 look even better.

Thanks. I have a gsync monitor but still interested what AMD will bring. I mean freesync/gsync monitors don't cost to much now.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Where do we go from here?
Nvidia has a number of responses to the ray tracing performance problem. One of them is that most gamers have a 1080p display, so it’s perfectly fine that ray tracing targets 1080p 60 FPS. In our opinion, that’s rubbish. Yes, if you play these titles at 1080p with an RTX 2060 Super and the entry level ray tracing modes, often you get playable frame rates around 60 FPS, as you can see on the chart below. Control is not quite at that level, but sure, in general the RTX 2060 Super and above are going to deliver 60 FPS at 1080p.

But there’s a reason we ran most of our tests at 1440p. These GPUs are 1440p class cards. You are spending $400 on an RTX 2060 Super, that’s a lot of money to get a 1080p 60 FPS experience. What about the RTX 2070 or RTX 2080? You can’t possibly say a $500+ GPU is designed for 1080p 60 FPS gaming. If that was the target you could have just as well bought a GTX 1660 which is a 1080p 60 FPS level GPU. The reason people spend the big bucks on these higher priced cards is to play at higher resolutions and frame rates. If ray tracing is to succeed, it has to fit into that picture.

Nvidia’s other response is to either turn down other graphics settings, or use DLSS. We don’t buy the idea of turning down settings to enable ray tracing. This is a premium graphics feature, a cherry on top when you’ve already been playing on Ultra settings. We don’t want to reduce our preset to medium to enable ray tracing, that makes little sense.

DLSS, or other forms of resolution scaling... sure, these will improve your frame rate when ray tracing is enabled. But they also improve your frame rate when ray tracing is disabled, they don’t fundamentally close that performance gap. So you will always have the choice between significantly higher performance, or ray tracing, regardless of whether you are resolution scaling or not. And that’s only scratching the surface of that discussion.

@chris85oc
Source used: https://www.techspot.com/article/1934-the-state-of-ray-tracing/

 

[TNA]

You are a troll and stupid at that.
TU 106 has 10.6 billion transistors.
Navi 10 has 10.3 billion transistors.

Now stop trolling.

Pot calling the kettle black or what? Lol!

 

[SpudMaster]

Don’t see why its so hard for some of you to admit that rx5xxx users got shafted by AMD in regards to RT.

You can't be shafted when you buy a product knowing that it doesn't support a certain feature. Now if you bought a 2060 or 2070 expecting to be able to play games with decent fps and RT, I'd say Nvidia shafted you

 

[gpuerrilla]

You can't be shafted when you buy a product knowing that it doesn't support a certain feature. Now if you bought a 2060 or 2070 expecting to be able to play games with decent fps and RT, I'd say Nvidia shafted you

 

[melmac]

RTX is a gimmick but Microsoft DXR upon which it's base and which is part of DX12 Ultimate is not, and this is what AMD will be using.

I'm not saying Nvidia will drop RTX as they seem to have managed to get everyone to think that raytracing is RTX and as a marketing tool, they will keep it going as long as they can.

What?? If you believe the nonsense you just wrote, than you have no clue. So I presume you wrote this in a hurry or while tired and made a mistake?

 

[KentMan]

You can't be shafted when you buy a product knowing that it doesn't support a certain feature. Now if you bought a 2060 or 2070 expecting to be able to play games with decent fps and RT, I'd say Nvidia shafted you

This all day long..

 

[Parsley]

And like i said before, pc gamers are all like ‘pff consoles, pcs have better graphics anyway’. .

Just got to mention with this one.

Not necessarily. I like my 21:9 resolution. I like the ability to mess with my settings until I get the trade off between performance and graphical fidelity that I like. I like to be able to modify and do things with my games that I can't do on a console. I also prefer playing things on anything other than a controller (other than 3rd person games or when I can't be bothered with a wheel / joystick). There are many reasons for choosing to game on a pc rather than a console just like there are reasons to play on a console rather than a pc. The vast majority of gamers are likely on hardware that draws even or underperforms vs a console anyway (especially with the new console launch imminent). All of us in here bickering over the higher tier cards aren't anywhere near the normal market.

As for the ray tracing stuff... I didn't see the value last gen at all, same with DLSS. It just isn't in enough games yet. I'm not convinced with the incoming generation either as I just don't feel the fidelity offered is there yet... it's not a must have for me especially considering the hit to frame rate. The new consoles will force it into more games but as for how good it will look? I need more convincing.

However I agree the value wasn't really there at the time for the 5700XT, I stuck with my Vega64 as I didn't think it offered enough extra performance considering what I already had. I'll be upgrading this gen and I'm looking forward to that!

 

[RavenXXX2]

How many decent games with RTX over the past two years? fact is now the consoles with RDNA 2 are soon to be on the scene, raytracing will become more mainstream and on the desktop AMD Radeon RDNA 2 GPUs will lead the way with every console port optimised for the RDNA 2 architecture, going to be a rough few years for Nvidia.