AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[Rroff]

But why recommend them and not buy? We are already in a duopoly situation, not exactly a good idea being stuck with only intel and nvidia. End of the day whatever happened all those years ago was done under a different CEO and management team. Hell I hate many things nvidia do, still won’t stop me buying what I want

My own relationship with ATI and later AMD is complex.

On a personal note I do a lot of things that keep me Intel/nVidia centric - I do a lot of video game development and/or modding as a hobby which either involves older tools which are Intel centric or technologies that AMD have been behind the curve on or don't support such as hardware accelerated (GPU) physics, ray tracing and being an early adopter of things like G-Sync.

I've also grown a strong dislike due to the number of times they've promised something and/or run their mouth but not delivered - this include in general but also in relationship with people or businesses that I've had a relationship with. (Ray tracing is another area here I look on them poorly for because like hardware physics I can see the potential it brings when implemented fully and properly but they have been again dragging their heels over it which is slowing down progress).

Maybe AMD under the current management, now some of the people who continued reasons why I disliked them from the ATI days, have left they can change my mind but that is very much something for the future. With Zen 3 and looking like with Navi 2x there has been a change in this respect with much more of letting the product do the talking.

 

[KentMan]

Lol, you lot are obcessed with NV. Do you think people want to read more AMD vs Nvidia nonsense?

Meanwhile AMD seems to be doing its own thing anyway, with the RDNA 2 series release date based around the console launches.

Still see no reason why the likely outcome of waiting 6-12 months for 5nm GPUs shouldnt already be something that is considered, or at least discussed. Is thinking about a later GPU upgradr so terrible ton contemplate?

Because if you wait for 5nm then youll just for for the next refresh etc etc, and never buy anything.

AMD has not released a full product stack from top to bottom for years, we dint actually know if this upcoming release will be a full top to bottom release either, i have my suspicions we will see top tier halo down to mid range and potentially a respin of 5700xt and below on 6nm next year and rebadged as we know AMD loves a rebadge.

The way i am personally seeing things is
6900 halo card max cores with AIO circa £1200
6900 high end on air circa £900
6900 high end entry cut down 3080 perf £650
6800 3070 perf £550

Then 6700 and below could quite easily be the 5700xt stack and below moved to 6nm for a performance boost and rebadged as 6700xt etc

 

[Rroff]

I'd assume AMD will phase out the 5700XT and replace with something on the Navi 22 core. I doubt they will continue to produce RDNA1.

 

[KentMan]

I'd assume AMD will phase out the 5700XT and replace with something on the Navi 22 core. I doubt they will continue to produce RDNA1.

Wouldnt put it past them to refresh it on 6nm, we know they love a refresh, and means another product line on a different node, while they prepare RDNA2 to move over to 6nm later.

They'll probably refresh xbox and ps soc on 6nm at some point too, or maybe even 5nm, but i can see 6nm being a real probability for the consoles in a year or so.

 

[g67575]

Because if you wait for 5nm then youll just for for the next refresh etc etc, and never buy anything.

Depends what youve got installed already. If you can afford it, you could just go with a lower end GPU upgrade this year, if what you have isnt quite good enough, then later buy a High end 5nm GPU (and sell the previous GPU). One advantage of this is, you will probably at least get ray tracing h/w even on lower end GPUs (which RDNA ofc doesnt have).

 

[Rroff]

Last few years of GPU history has largely shown value in jumping on a bigger card early, even if it means pushing your budget, and selling just before the next lot arrives. Those that have hang on have tended to get worse performance for their money over the duration.

People who bought stuff like the 980ti on release ended up laughing in the longer run, etc.

 

[g67575]

Its a risk to buy high end if you arent gonna keep it long term, especially if you sell too late. just buy low end and sell, you will lose a lot less value.

 

[TrM]

Its a risk to buy high end if you arent gonna keep it long term, especially if you sell too late. just buy low end and sell, you will lose a lot less value.

allways buy high end allways have the best resale value. 980ti 1080ti all had very good resale value and i expect the rtx 3080 to have the same heck even a 2080/ti still sell with high value. buying lesser today because you wont keep it long term is nonsence. look at the 2080ti and 2080 not like are not still amazing gpu with really good performance and not exactly been made extinct

Depends what youve got installed already. If you can afford it, you could just go with a lower end GPU upgrade this year, if what you have isnt quite good enough, then later buy a High end 5nm GPU (and sell the previous GPU). One advantage of this is, you will at least get ray tracing h/w even on lower end GPUs (which RDNA ofc doesnt have).

thats got to be the worst advice i've heard in a long time. talking about a 5nm gpu when amd haven't even released this one yet. we dont know what amd has to offer apart from a small segment on there cpu showcase. 5nm is quite aways off atm We will have a refresh next year and then rdna 3 lets say will be 2022. if you are allways worried about the technology moving on you will never buy anything

 

[g67575]

its not a case of being worried about the tech moving on. The transistor density of 7nm (for AMD GPUs) has barely improved at all since the Radeon VII (40M to 41.0M / mm² on Navi 10) . Its about not being satisfied with the limited progress thats been made on 7nm, and not just throwing money at whoever builds the fastest GPU.

Remember, AMD suggested 7nm EUV for RDNA 2 on a roadmap, but had to change their plans for some reason (maybe just decided to skip 7nm EUV, in favour of 5nm (EUV process) later).

Its time to call upon the spirit of the Karen that resides within each of us

 

[Rroff]

EUV is still complicated and expensive - 5nm does seem to be coming along nicely though and probably here sooner rather than later relative to the timescale of these things.

 

[Nablaoperator]

Not sucking into the hype at this stage. If they have another card thats better to stir the hornets nest with nvidia then great! Me personally will only be investing in a 4k capable card for the cheapest price - hoping for £500-600. Willy waving £1000+ cards is not in my budget but I can understand from a brand perspective why this wins mindshare.

I feel the 3090 equivalent would debut at 50% discount.. especially if it uses 16gb VRAM, coupled with RT discount.. don't see a market at those prices for AMD except for frontier edition

6900 halo card max cores with AIO circa £1200
6900 high end on air circa £900
6900 high end entry cut down 3080 perf £650
6800 3070 perf £550

That probably needs to be offset by 1 tier. AMD can't sell at those prices due to RT reasons

---

Meanwhile the RTX 30 launch is reaching new lows. This is what larian had to say:

"Fun story: Because the card was so wildly popular, we couldn’t source any to test with prior to launch," Larian said. "We still don’t have one. At this point, we’re pretty sure you guys made up the RTX 3080. Prove it exists by sending one to us."

https://www.pcgamer.com/amp/larian-asks-nvidia-to-please-send-them-an-rtx-3080/

 

[Jacky60]

It's probably true, who wants to bet on it?


https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2264233-1-1.html

I think it's probably true too, the rushed Nvidia launch with zero stock and the fact their cards are running so close to the limit tells me they know a lot about what AMD are about to reveal. I'm betting AMD take the performance crown outright (excluding RT performance where they'll be marginally slower) beating the 3090. I'm calling £899/$899 for the 6900XT and if what I predict is correct I'm buying a 6900XT.

 

[Calin Banc]

Because if you wait for 5nm then youll just for for the next refresh etc etc, and never buy anything.

AMD has not released a full product stack from top to bottom for years, we dint actually know if this upcoming release will be a full top to bottom release either, i have my suspicions we will see top tier halo down to mid range and potentially a respin of 5700xt and below on 6nm next year and rebadged as we know AMD loves a rebadge.

The way i am personally seeing things is
6900 halo card max cores with AIO circa £1200
6900 high end on air circa £900
6900 high end entry cut down 3080 perf £650
6800 3070 perf £550

Then 6700 and below could quite easily be the 5700xt stack and below moved to 6nm for a performance boost and rebadged as 6700xt etc

At prices like that, I'm gonna skip a few generations. Good luck killing PC Gaming - I know, is an old saying, but with prices such as these, for sure they're pushing all the right buttons towards that goal.

 

[Richdog]

The way i am personally seeing things is
6900 halo card max cores with AIO circa £1200
6900 high end on air circa £900
6900 high end entry cut down 3080 perf £650
6800 3070 perf £550

At prices like that, I'm gonna skip a few generations. Good luck killing PC Gaming - I know, is an old saying, but with prices such as these, for sure they're pushing all the right buttons towards that goal.

Colin, you know he just completely made up those completely illogical prices based on no factual information whatsoever... right? Right?

I mean seriously guys, stop overreacting to people's completely random posts as though they just came from AMD themselves.

 

[Dontrocktheboat]

Depends what youve got installed already. If you can afford it, you could just go with a lower end GPU upgrade this year, if what you have isnt quite good enough, then later buy a High end 5nm GPU (and sell the previous GPU). One advantage of this is, you will probably at least get ray tracing h/w even on lower end GPUs (which RDNA ofc doesnt have).

Try and make a post without mentioning "5nm" "7nm" in the content. Otherwise get back to your thread. You are really doing my nut in.

 

[Hedge]

My own relationship with ATI and later AMD is complex.

On a personal note I do a lot of things that keep me Intel/nVidia centric - I do a lot of video game development and/or modding as a hobby which either involves older tools which are Intel centric or technologies that AMD have been behind the curve on or don't support such as hardware accelerated (GPU) physics, ray tracing and being an early adopter of things like G-Sync.

I've also grown a strong dislike due to the number of times they've promised something and/or run their mouth but not delivered - this include in general but also in relationship with people or businesses that I've had a relationship with. (Ray tracing is another area here I look on them poorly for because like hardware physics I can see the potential it brings when implemented fully and properly but they have been again dragging their heels over it which is slowing down progress).

Maybe AMD under the current management, now some of the people who continued reasons why I disliked them from the ATI days, have left they can change my mind but that is very much something for the future. With Zen 3 and looking like with Navi 2x there has been a change in this respect with much more of letting the product do the talking.

You dedicate a lot of your time to this thread considering you have zero interest in buying an AMD product.

I'm not suggesting this thread should just be AMD fanboys fluffing each other but your input just seems to be the same waffle packaged a bunch of different ways.

Nvidia haven't been perfect themselves. Infact a lot of the nvidia advantages would likely come from Nvidia throwing money at developers saying optimise your product for our hardware.

Ive owned Nvidia since AMD 7970 because they have been superior but I keep an open mind and would love to change to amd.

 

[KentMan]

Colin, you know he just completely made up those completely illogical prices based on no factual information whatsoever... right? Right?

I mean seriously guys, stop overreacting to people's completely random posts as though they just came from AMD themselves.

Yep i 100% made these up but based them on the fact that AMD has shown with Zen3 prices they arent afraid to raise prices.

5700XT prices were not great in all honesty and if AMD has a gpu thats out performing Nvidia it will only be marginally cheaper than Nvidia i fear, regardless of the fact they will have no DLSS and inferior RT performance.

Nvidia has no stock, if AMD launches with stock there are a lot of people just wanting raster performance at 3080 level, RT gimmicks aside that will bite, and i dont think they will undersell Nvidia as much as we would hope they will.

In all honesty i personally feel the smart move would be to go down the zen route of disruption if they had competitive performance and actually sell as low as they can to bring market prices in the gpu space at the top end back down. That would benefit everyone, but i just cant see it happening, all their previous high end cards lately have been overpriced for their actual performance.

If AMD enter the market with plentiful stock and 3080 performance or better be prepared to pay nearly nvidia money.

Infact thank Nvidia for bringing 3080 at such a reasonable MRSP even if it was only ever for a couple of units, as AMD will be under this price ever so slightly I reckon.

Also @Richdog i meant to add that the top 2 6900 cards would be 3090 level with the absolute top tier halo aio one beating it.

6700 @£550 is still 2080ti performance

I made the prices up but its my gut feeling AMD wont be cheap, especially due to lack of Nvidia stock if AMD has stock and parity on raster performance

 

[Freddie1980]

I'd assume AMD will phase out the 5700XT and replace with something on the Navi 22 core. I doubt they will continue to produce RDNA1.

A bit of odd one the Navi 10XT, competitive chip but looks like it will have a short shelf live whereas the much older Polaris 10 XT/GCN 4.0 found on the RX 470/480/570/580/590 refuses to die. And it's not like producing masks for these chips is cheap.

 

[Richdog]

Yep i 100% made these up but based them on the fact that AMD has shown with Zen3 prices they arent afraid to raise prices.

Sorry man but they were silly estimates and you seem to be imagining that AMD have some breathrough architecture on their hands where the "entry level high end" part will equal a 3080? It's more than a little optimistic, bordering on mildly ridiculous.

 

[KentMan]

Sorry man but they were silly estimates and you seem to be imagining that AMD have some breathrough architecture on their hands where the "entry level high end" part will equal a 3080? It's more than a little ridiculous.

Theres not much difference between the 3080 and 3090, if AMD have something that is beating the 3090 is it not unreasonable to expect them to cut it down to compete with the 3080?