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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

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Quake 2 (last update) actually scares me how far it has come - even though it is missing some effects i.e. light scattering off a transparent surface (i.e. water) doesn't happen (though I think that is more something the developer never got around to implementing - so I had to fake it in some test scenes using underwater lights purporting to be reflected light) while they do have fast approximation of caustics through a transparent surface. Only the sun light has proper simulation of bounced light and even then the number of bounces is heavily constrained with other emissive sources even more constrained in terms of how many additional rays after the first hit will be generated and very limited transport of the colour of previous bounces.

But just seeing the play of light throughout the scene in a way that older techniques can't even come close to is quite something - I've spent a lot of time building test scenes in Quake 2 RTX but it is let down a bit by the older geometry engine in the game which lacks support for things like static meshes and minimum brush resolution is like 1 inch hah.

It does look beautiful in a way which you just can't achieve with rasterization, and it's just the tip of the iceberg, in 10-20 years time we'd ideally like modern games mostly using ray tracing as the primary source and aiming for the kind of lighting and shadow quality we have in modern renders. As long as the hardware continues to scale we move closer to that dream, it's just the roadmap is going to have a gradual shift, it's baby steps right now to get the tech in, get standards established and get it into general circulation, and the refinement will come later. It's the story with almost all new tech adoption.

Thanks for providing the detail necessary to prove the point that is just a second option. As you demonstrated it doesn't change the fact of what you see in global illumination. It doesn't change the fact of how you see Shadows, etc. These options aren't new when rt is used. The end results are the same. How rt is used now only compliments rasterized games.

We are aware of how Ray tracing actually works and how it works differently from rasterized games. However that is not the point, and far from it. It is the end result and its implementation in current games which is the focal point not the techniques used. Which becomes irrelevant and lost in the details as the end result is always the same.

It just compliments rasterized games using only a few features of rt. Even now when some of those features are used the game still needs to be downsample as the average midrange hardware isn't capable.

Now if the day comes in which a game is truly, completely Ray traced that brings a higher level of realism to the seems that it presents then we can talk. And, no cb2077 doesnt count. But I seriously doubt it would be on this generation of Hardware LOL.

But it does matter because with rasterization it's just an approximation and when you compare scenes you can tell one is faked because it has all sorts of telltale signs, we know that reflections for example can only be screen space when rasterized, which has all sorts of problems and limitations. But also it matters for developers, if they have to manually add in these effects or tailor them to the map, or worse the map to the effects losing more creative control, then that's less time they can spend doing other things. Where as it's a meme with ray tracing but it just works, very little artistic input is needed once it's implemented in the engine, you can just turn it on and away you go.

It's not "lost in the details" because the details are the entire point, people care about graphics and they want improvement in the fidelity of the graphics and so simply by definition the details matter. If what you mean is you couldn't give a toss about the details, then fine. But a lot of us do which is why we spend the better part of a grand on video card hardware.

If i told you this scene contains both Ray Traced Reflections and Screen Space Reflections, now that you know this can you tell me which is which in this scene?

Normally with reflections the tell is if the items exist in the screen space or not. In this example the lights reflecting in the puddle do not, nor does that air compressor looking thing in the reflection to the right of the puddle, suggesting it might be ray traced. But who knows with enough manual fakery you could reproduce those effects other ways like with cubemaps or whatever.
 
But it does matter because with rasterization it's just an approximation and when you compare scenes you can tell one is faked because it has all sorts of telltale signs

I think part of the problem is too many people are only comparing from screenshots - I have loads from playing around in Quake 2 RTX that look nice but hard to tell the difference from a more modern renderer (or people get hung up on irrelevant factors like Quake 2 still has the underlying geometry limitations of a 20 year old engine) but actually moving around them and having a play with different settings, etc. the difference is profound.
 
Normally with reflections the tell is if the items exist in the screen space or not. In this example the lights reflecting in the puddle do not, nor does that air compressor looking thing in the reflection to the right of the puddle, suggesting it might be ray traced. But who knows with enough manual fakery you could reproduce those effects other ways like with cubemaps or whatever.

The puddle in the foreground under the railing and the puddle behind that with the lights are Ray Traced, the Tarmac / Asphalt are Screen Space with an Environment Probe, the Environment Probe is providing the reflected assets outside the screen space.

The Cyan lighting tint on the left of the screen is Global Illumination provided by a light source above, probably a neon sign.

Wet Asphalt doesn't reflect a perfect image, unless its an RTX game, its where you would use Screen Space reflections as those reflections don't need to be; are not crisp anyway.
 
this to me says that their Radeon 6000 series is "big navi" rather than one specific GPU :)
Only the Nvidiots and naysayers were saying anything to the contrary :) Even if "Big Navi" refers to the Navi 21 die, there are still 3 SKUs rumoured to utilise it in some form. So did Dr. Su tease Big Navi? She sure did. Did Dr. Su tease the top-end 6900XTX? Highly doubtful.
 
If i told you this scene contains both Ray Traced Reflections and Screen Space Reflections, now that you know this can you tell me which is which in this scene?

sfd3rQI.png


I'd have to see that moving really to say which is RT and which is not tbh... as that's just a static picture and my understanding of RT is more around how it comes along a path then refracts/reflects and creates shadows so I'd go something on that puddle is RT at a guess as it's reflecting the railing... etc, but I know nowt about RT tbh so I'd not try and preach anything to anyone. Either way, it's a lovely pick hahaha

EDIT: Ahhh I've seen your explanation above, sorry was late to the RT argument lol.
 
The puddle in the foreground under the railing

Though i had guessed the same.. far off geometry like far-off buildings, radiator, sky will be projected using traditional methods
..while ray traced reflections for nearby geometry will be overwritten
.. but still its kinda difficult to swallow the clarity of that reflected railing, the denoiser shouldve smudged it beyond recognition
 
Just noticed this on Gibbo's stock update thread.

For those who have not seen the update on 3070, that launch is now postponed and shall instead be on October 29th at 14:00 UK Time.

Day after the AMD announcement there really is some playground competition happening.

What a helluva weird year this is.

(yes I know it was announced around 2nd Oct)
 
https://twitter.com/LisaSu/status/1315648926993854466

Btw - just to bring convo back on track, this to me says that their Radeon 6000 series is "big navi" rather than one specific GPU :) - thats how I read it anyway?

You've got to take in the mentality going around after that tease of RX 6000 series.

The sequence of events so far has been:

1. Nvidia release RTX30 series - Internet goes crazy at how amazingly fast the cards are and how much better they were compared to expectation.

2. AMD tease Big Navi series - Internet goes crazy about how disappointing the performance is, bearing in mind it's almost as fast as the 3080, plus AMD coming from a position of only matching the 2070s last gen.

You have to laugh at how people's heads work :P
 
Though i had guessed the same.. far off geometry like far-off buildings, radiator, sky will be projected using traditional methods
..while ray traced reflections for nearby geometry will be overwritten
.. but still its kinda difficult to swallow the clarity of that reflected railing, the denoiser shouldve smudged it beyond recognition

All true, i agree the water reflection is too clear, tho it looks like a simple water plane, the mud ring around it hides that, you could add bump map or displacement textures to it to smudge it up a bit so its not quite so mirror like, but this is for show, if you do that in a demo people will scream "meeeyyyy its not a perfect reflection, its not true Ray Tracing.... meeeee meeeeee......."
 
I have to admit, that's a fairly realistic looking scene. Could almost mistake it for a pic.

Yeah, and that's the point, you don't need to throw masses of horsepower at something in order to have it look good, i find a lot of the RTX stuff looks not just completely fake but also from an art form in aesthetics point of view horrible.

https://wwww.artstation.com/artwork/6aoRqV

FZ3V0t7.jpg.png
 
EDIT: Though in the presentation she says "6000 series which we now affectionately call Big Navi" - I wonder if they are doing that because the 6000 series is purely a big core.

For me personally I thought this was always the case. Only since the weaker codenames (dimgrey cavefish) with the sizes of the die + spec do we know that there is cut down CU's which would then refer to it as 'smaller navi' (which may not be physically smaller).
 
Just noticed this on Gibbo's stock update thread.



Day after the AMD announcement there really is some playground competition happening.

What a helluva weird year this is.

(yes I know it was announced around 2nd Oct)

Sometimes an inventory build is just an inventory build but...

One thing I wonder if nVidia is concerned about is that currently the 3070 spot is an open fight - nVidia have shown their cards but AMD can top it soon after the 3070 started shipping and potentially spoil their sales with a better offering which might have people holding off buying. If AMD commit to a specification for the 3070 slot on the 28th nVidia can now come back with a refined offering on the 29th - people are then less likely to hold off buying even if AMD scrabble around again.

Meanwhile I'm pretty sure nVidia know well enough what to expect to place their 3080.
 
Some posters here are hilarious. At this point i have to assume they very well know what they are doing trying to antagonize others. It’s turning into a game of ‘i’ma spout random Bs and keep rollin with it, you mad yet lololol :D:D:D‘.

The alternative is too sad really.

@Rroff you’re wasting your breath trying to reply seriously to some posters. Honestly they’re just arguing in bad faith knowing they’re wrong but trying to annoy you and others. I have to applaud your patience though.
 
@Rroff you’re wasting your breath trying to reply seriously to some posters. Honestly they’re just arguing in bad faith knowing they’re wrong but trying to annoy you and others. I have to applaud your patience though.

Been doing it for years - I just keep ploughing on - if people are on a wind up or trying to annoy people or whatever they are wasting their time.
 
If i told you this scene contains both Ray Traced Reflections and Screen Space Reflections, now that you know this can you tell me which is which in this scene?

sfd3rQI.png

Feels a little like QI as I expect a siren to sound, but isn't SSR restricted to everything that can be seen on screen and from the player's perspective. RT fills in the blind spots. So the barrier is drawn using SSR within the puddle? The lights reflected etc. could be cheated, but should be RT as off screen. I tried to find some reflection that showed the back of the barrier, but failed.

Is the underneath of the barrier RT?. What I don't get is why the barrier is lighter in the puddle?
 
well I caught up and it seems not a whole lot has happened. Am quite looking forward to seeing what we get here and how much money they want to extort from me for one :) I might even buy myself a birthday present if they are decent :D
 
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