Greta Thunberg

[wesimmo]

That's an unfair twist of what I've said. I said I don't know enough about the science - that much is true - but she doesn't convince me that she cares or knows what she's talking about, so is therefore a bad spokesperson.

Ok, what she says is correct according to every single reputable scientist or scientific establishment.

Why doesn't she convince you?

Because she uses facts and statistics to present a logical argument that is backed up by all experts in the area?

Or that you don't believe a young girl could be exceptionally gifted intellectually, able to assimilate facts and process them, though a little awkward publically, because she has Asperger's?

 

[jpaul]

There probably isn't one person on these forums that would have a hatreddislike for David Attenborough

I'm that person .
He's preaching , laconic, and his carbon footprint, has not been negligible, or, as commented, that which he has promoted in others,
she can be defended , somewhat, with the exhuberance of youth.

There should be a carbon equivalent to monetary/Gates philanthropy - he should plant trees until personal carbon neutrality ?

She has an upcoming film , you may have seen advertised - beyond spitting image.

 

[Rroff]

The left basically use celebrities and peer pressure to form a consensus and attack those who won't conform. Science is based on facts not consensuses and theories are not facts, many scientific theories that had 'consensus' were later disproven by a single individual. The problem with global warming is it's become a political tool to empower government and restructure the economy to a socialist system of top down control, like we're witnessing with the COVID response.

I'm not denying climate change but I find the whole consensus for climate change project concerning in this respect - many of the people behind it were involved in modelling solar cycles and used consensus to brow beat those scientists who didn't agree with them - turned out those small number of scientists who didn't agree with them were actually right - though the whole thing has been swept under a rug now and you'll only find snippets of information about it on the internet.

 

[Lysander]

Ok, what she says is correct according to every single reputable scientist or scientific establishment.

Every single one... I find this hard to believe.

Please do not cherrypick a stream of data to support your argument, I am purely saying this comment seems a generalisation to me. It would have been more accurate to say "a large amount of credible scientists".

Why doesn't she convince you?

Because she uses facts and statistics to present a logical argument that is backed up by all experts in the area?

Or that you don't believe a young girl could be exceptionally gifted intellectually, able to assimilate facts and process them, though a little awkward publically, because she has Asperger's?

You are presenting options as if these are the only options. You also seem to be rather angry about this, maybe the few words I have said fall in line with an image of the kind of person you already believe I am, which is rather assumptive. People do have different opinions about things for a variety of reasons - and that's OK. She just doesn't convince me, and I am not going to get into a protracted argument in appeasement. There's little more to it than that.

 

[wesimmo]

Every single one... I find this hard to believe.

Please do not cherrypick a stream of data to support your argument, I am purely saying this comment seems a generalisation to me. It would have been more accurate to say "a large amount of credible scientists".



You are presenting options as if these are the only options. You also seem to be rather angry about this, maybe the few words I have said fall in line with an image of the kind of person you already believe I am, which is rather assumptive. People do have different opinions about things for a variety of reasons - and that's OK. She just doesn't convince me, and I am not going to get into a protracted argument in appeasement. There's little more to it than that.

The commonly used consensus percentage is that 97% agree with Greta's position (though this is obviously hard to nail down and is debated), and more often than not dissenting papers are found to be heavily flawed when peer reviewed.

So what is your reason? I didn't present those as comprehensive, just the only ones that quickly came to mind as I asked you why.

My anger, you're right there, is that yet again someone who had admitted ignorance of a subject that is desperately important felt the need to post an attack on the messenger for no good reason.

 

[deuse]

The earth will heat up.
And then go cold as it's always has done.

 

[Freddie1980]

There probably isn't one person on these forums that would have a hatred for David Attenborough or what he says but have a 17 year old girl say it and some are triggered.

That's because David Attenborough is a documentary producer with decades of experience and substantial gravitas, so when he says something he has the respect of the public and people will listen to what he says. Greta on the other hand is a teenager who was dropped out school to go sailing across the atlantic and then lecturers people on their lifestyle choices. And let's be honest, Greta does leave herself open for ridicule/parody/jokes from the way she presents herself, how she chooses to speak to people and by the fact she chooses to put herself in front of the public (with the help from mainstream media).

What grinds me is when media platforms that report everything that she says but don't provide any balance, alternative view points and debate isn't allowed (the same thing has happened with the BLM movement).

 

[200sols]

What grinds me is when media platforms that report everything that she says but don't provide any balance, alternative view points and debate isn't allowed (the same thing has happened with the BLM movement).

What alternative view on the climate would you like? The climate deniers version of the news?

 

[D.P.]

).

What grinds me is when media platforms that report everything that she says but don't provide any balance, alternative view points and debate isn't allowed (the same thing has happened with the BLM movement).

And how much time is give to flat earthers, holocaust deniers, proponents of Intelligent design, and fake moon landing conspiracies?


People who have alternative views of facts are mentally ill and have nothing remotely interesting to present

 

[Rroff]

What alternative view on the climate would you like? The climate deniers version of the news?

In too many cases any alternative view for or against if they don't fit the narration - including in some cases things like ways to tackle climate change that are better than those being pushed or serious flaws with solutions, "factual" data that is anything but, etc.

 

[FoxEye]

The commonly used consensus percentage is that 97% agree with Greta's position.

Agree with Greta's position? Greta's position?

FFS, this is why I can't stand her.

She's basically credited these days with inventing climate science. She's just a mouthy kid and she gets credit for a movement she's contributed virtually nothing towards. How very dare she!

 

[wesimmo]

Agree with Greta's position? Greta's position?

FFS, this is why I can't stand her.

She's basically credited these days with inventing climate science. She's just a mouthy kid and she gets credit for a movement she's contributed virtually nothing towards. How very dare she!

Because we were discussing her position and why someone would be upset about her position without understanding the facts around her position, so I pointed out her position was backed up by science.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Because we were discussing her position and why someone would be upset about her position without understanding the facts around her position, so I pointed out her position was backed up by science.

Yeah but shes a female.

 

[4K8KW10]

The person is the only relevant thing because that's how it's been done - it's a cult of personality. She offers no solutions and says nothing that hasn't been said by more knowledgeable people. It's purely a cult of personality, so the person is the whole point.

She actually quite actively offers solutions:

 

[Rroff]

Agree with Greta's position? Greta's position?

FFS, this is why I can't stand her.

She's basically credited these days with inventing climate science. She's just a mouthy kid and she gets credit for a movement she's contributed virtually nothing towards. How very dare she!

That is a horrid distortion of the facts he is using - 97% don't agree with Greta's position - 97% have at some point acknowledge climate change, nothing more, nothing less.

The number if also routinely misused in other contexts to try and stifle debate or different opinions.

The people behind coming up with that number are also fairly suspect with a history of protecting self-interest and being wrong on other matters (not to imply that climate change isn't real).

 

[200sols]

Yeah but shes a female.

And?

 

[FoxEye]

And?

It's just his thing. He pops into threads and accuses people of racism or sexism and... that's basically it.

He'll never change Him and stockhausen are the "ism tag team" in these parts.

 

[wesimmo]

That is a horrid distortion of the facts he is using - 97% don't agree with Greta's position - 97% have at some point acknowledge climate change, nothing more, nothing less.

The number if also routinely misused in other contexts to try and stifle debate or different opinions.

The people behind coming up with that number are also fairly suspect with a history of protecting self-interest and being wrong on other matters (not to imply that climate change isn't real).

I acknowledged the weakness in the 97% however it is not a horrible distortion if you read the context.

The point is, man made climate change is something that all but a tiny minority of scientists agree with, which is the position Greta is supporting (I wouldn't want to give her credit incorrectly ).

They also agree that something needs to be done, again as she does.

I'm not using it to stifle debate, I was using it to give a a broad overview of the situation to someone who was ignorant of the facts and wanted to demean the messenger for no reason i can make out.

 

[FoxEye]

I acknowledged the weakness in the 97% however it is not a horrible distortion if you read the context.

The point is, man made climate change is something that all but a tiny minority of scientists agree with, which is the position Greta is supporting (I wouldn't want to give her credit incorrectly ).

They also agree that something needs to be done, again as she does.

I'm not using it to stifle debate, I was using it to give a a broad overview of the situation to someone who was ignorant of the facts and wanted to demean the messenger for no reason i can make out.

How is she even supporting that position? I mean, what research has she carried out? What qualifications does she have to offer support to any scientific/academic position?

None. She's a teenager who hasn't even finished her A-levels.

How can she "support" the science when she's barely out of diapers.

As @Angillion rightly said, it's a cult of personality. She's basically a younger version of the Love Island "celebrity" Famous for being famous, and having nothing of value to add in her field.

 

[wesimmo]

How is she even supporting that position? I mean, what research has she carried out? What qualifications does she have to offer support to any scientific/academic position?

None. She's a teenager who hasn't even finished her A-levels.

How can she "support" the science when she's barely out of diapers.

As @Angillion rightly said, it's a cult of personality. She's basically a younger version of the Love Island "celebrity" Famous for being famous, and having nothing of value to add in her field.

Dont judge her by your own standards.

Besides, being able to read the available facts, even as a lay person, and come to the conclusion is hardly rocket science.

I'm not sure why you seem to think that to understand something you have to have done the actual scientific research yourself, we wouldn't have got very far if everybody took that view.