handbrake is called e-brake?

[Akagi]

Again, why would the handbrake be on with such a fundamental power failure?

We've been over this...

Handbrake on > engine off > time passes > car runs out of power.

Yknow, the normal process for when a car runs out of power?

How likely is it that your car breaks down on the motorway and ends up with zero battery power and thus no ability to release the handbrake?

Not impossible, which is likely enough. But there are other more likely situations previously mentioned. Even if it isn't dangerous situations we are talking about, there are plenty where it would be inconvenient.

Also it isn't only the losing power thing, with it being a button and wires, something as simple as a wiring issue, loose connection, faulty switch, faulty electric actuator, etc, would also cause problems.

The argument could be made that there are lots of electrical thing which can go wrong, which is true. But the handbrake is the only electrical thing which will physically prevent you from moving a car manually if it fails. On a manual at least... With a modern auto the electronic gear selector could also cause issues there... Whats wrong with a lever connected to a cable for the gearbox as well?

To be honest, I am not completely against the idea of them, I am against the current implementation, whereby they cannot be mechanically overridden in case of emergency (or just need).

However it does make drift entries a bit challenging... And handbrake turns.

 

[Dis86]

How likely is it that your car breaks down on the motorway and ends up with zero battery power and thus no ability to release the handbrake?

Happened to my daft sod of a mother after she got stuck in stationary traffic, turned the engine off but left the heating on...

So depending on the driver quite possible. Fortunately hers was a manual handbrake (Nissan Micra).

 

[[TW]Fox]

Happened to my daft sod of a mother after she got stuck in stationary traffic, turned the engine off but left the heating on..

But to then subsequently drain the battery whilst waiting for recovery implies she was in a safe location otherwise she'd surely have had to stay outside the car...

In all my time owning cars I've had various issues with manual handbrakes and not a single problem with an electric one..

 

[Nasher]

i know on the renault we owned it was common for the handbrake or e brake etc to fail and the electronic unit siezed up . the cables from the electronic unit had to be manually freed to release the brakes so yes agreed the button supplys power to the motor that operates cables to put the handbrake on , this goes faulty requiring the motor and cables to be operated manually i think we had a overide in the boot.

Yes that also happens a lot with them.

And yea, a battery going flat sat on a driveway with the brakes on is pretty common. What's worse is some of these brakes will automatically apply if the battery is very low (for "safety" reasons). Just to make sure it's properly sabotaged if you decide to be cunning and leave it off.

 

[Dis86]

But to then subsequently drain the battery whilst waiting for recovery implies she was in a safe location otherwise she'd surely have had to stay outside the car...

In all my time owning cars I've had various issues with manual handbrakes and not a single problem with an electric one..

It implies nothing of the sort. Also not everyone vacates a car when it's in a dangerous situation despite the guidance. Some people don't perceive or judge the situation correctly. Hence why there are full blown campaigns telling people to GTFO of the car.

Additionally areas that were 'safe' can become unsafe. For example a motorway where traffic that was stationary then becomes free flowing again after an obstruction is cleared (broken down vehicle, accident, something on the highway).

 

[Jonnycoupe]

The argument could be made that there are lots of electrical thing which can go wrong, which is true. But the handbrake is the only electrical thing which will physically prevent you from moving a car manually if it fails. On a manual at least... With a modern auto the electronic gear selector could also cause issues there... Whats wrong with a lever connected to a cable for the gearbox as well?

As in a emergency park release? Like exactly what automatic gearboxes have

 

[Akagi]

As in a emergency park release? Like exactly what automatic gearboxes have

I have never had or driven a car with an electronic gear selector so I wouldn't know. How do they work? Can it be done from inside the car or do you mean physically on the gearbox?

In any case, something like that for the handbrake would solve the problem to be honest.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I feel like we're inventing hypothetical situations to suit arguments here.

I mean we've already got Acme admitting he's actually never driven a car with an electronic gearshifter...

I think the electronic handbrake is one of the most useful and simple improvements on cars in many years. Theres actually less to cause issues than a conventional handbrake!

 

[Kenai]

Don't most cars with electronic handbrakes have a manual release tool, often with the portable jack etc. for the extremely rare instance you might have left it on and then had a total power failure?

As per usual in Motors, this feels like a lot of fuss over nothing.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I have never had or driven a car with an electronic gear selector so I wouldn't know. How do they work? Can it be done from inside the car or do you mean physically on the gearbox?

In any case, something like that for the handbrake would solve the problem to be honest.

There’s a cable buried away somewhere to pull. Often you have to pull the centre console storage out or maybe it’s under the bonnet. Deffo one to familiarise yourself with if you get one. My car has one for the motor park lock and even the charge socket to make sure you can disconnect the plug if charging.

It’s almost like the engineers did a Failure Mode Effect Analysis.

I remember the rigmarole to jump the original x351 2010 Jaguar XJ as you couldn’t open the boot without power and the battery was in the boot with no manual key option as that only worked on the drivers door handle when you popped the cover off to allow you to open the door, pop the bonnet then power up the fuse box just to open the boot lid…

Hence it later got dedicated jump posts in the engine bay.

 

[Akagi]

I feel like we're inventing hypothetical situations to suit arguments here.

I mean we've already got Acme admitting he's actually never driven a car with an electronic gearshifter...

I think the electronic handbrake is one of the most useful and simple improvements on cars in many years.

There are a wide range of situations, hypothetical does not mean unrealistic or unlikely.

And yes but I have driven a car with an electronic handbrake! Which is what we're actually talking about.

Theres actually less to cause issues than a conventional handbrake!

A couple of metal cables and a lever is surely less than a button, a plug, some wiring, at least one electric actuator, and depending on implementation, possibly also handbrake cables anyway.

 

[Akagi]

It’s almost like the engineers did a Failure Mode Effect Analysis.

I remember the rigmarole to jump the original x351 2010 Jaguar XJ as you couldn’t open the boot without power and the battery was in the boot with no manual key option as that only worked on the drivers door handle when you popped the cover off to allow you to open the door, pop the bonnet then power up the fuse box just to open the boot lid…

Hence it later got dedicated jump posts in the engine bay.

So electric handbrakes do have a manual override? Which at the very least, a firefighter would be able to use easily to move an immobile vehicle, even if not an average member of the public who has run out of battery?

I think some BMW's had the same problem as the XJ you mention...

 

[Jonnycoupe]

One of the only problems I’ve had on my insight was the handbrake cable seizing solid on so I couldn’t move the car, getting the drum brake off that was a game!

PS this activity took place outside

 

[Akagi]

I had the opposite problem with the V70R where both handbrake cables had seized with the handbrake off, but that was because the clips that held the cables to the lower arms had been removed (or broke and somehow disappeared without a trace) and the inner shoulder of the tyres had rubbed through the outer sheathing of the cable, exposing the flexible metal sleeve, which got moisture inside and rusted to the metal cable...

But these are old cars, and simple mechanical issues.

 

[Nasher]

There are a wide range of situations, hypothetical does not mean unrealistic or unlikely.

And yes but I have driven a car with an electronic handbrake! Which is what we're actually talking about.



A couple of metal cables and a lever is surely less than a button, a plug, some wiring, at least one electric actuator, and depending on implementation, possibly also handbrake cables anyway.

And an ECU in the middle to make sure you can't do handbrake turns with it.

 

[Akagi]

And an ECU in the middle to make sure you can't do handbrake turns with it.

Very sad.

But its probably just wired into the canbus network and doesn't work when wheel-speed > 0, rather than there being a dedicated fun spoiling control module.

 

[Nasher]

Very sad.

But its probably just wired into the canbus network and doesn't work when wheel-speed > 0, rather than there being a dedicated fun spoiling control module.

The fun spoiler seems to control everything on most modern cars

 

[[TW]Fox]

A couple of metal cables and a lever

Sounds so simple yet ask any E39 owner how much they like the handbrake...

 

[Akagi]

Sounds so simple yet ask any E39 owner how much they like the handbrake...

I assume they just go out of adjustment all the time right? Some Volvos have that issue too. And plenty of other cars. Most annoying. But it is a different issue in fairness.

 

[Nasher]

Usually you only get problems with manual ones if you don't use it for ages. Or keep hulking it on really tight.

Or wash the car and then put the handbrake on and leave it for weeks, so it rusts on to the disks

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Usually you only get problems with manual ones if you don't use it for ages. Or keep hulking it on really tight.

Or wash the car and then put the handbrake on and leave it for weeks, so it rusts on to the disks

Why would electronic e-brakes be immune from sticking and all the other problems associated with a manual e-brake?