Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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BowdonUK said:
I was watching Triggernometry and Konstantin Kisin commentary on the situation in Ukraine last night.
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This was posted a while back. Worth watching.

Whilst I do agree a deal needs to be done, even if the politicians agreed to allow Russia to completely take over Ukraine, the people themselves wouldn't accept it and would keep fighting.

Crimea and the Donbas region - and I guess all of the Black Sea region could be given up to save the rest of the country. Recognise the Donesk and Luhansk republics, Ukraine backs off from joining NATO, Russia accepts "Western Ukraine" seeks closer ties with the EU, everyone agrees that any further incursion by Russia will result in the same outcome as we have now (but with a stronger Ukraine defence force), internationally run humanitarian aid for those in the new republics (if required) but safe passage for those that do not want to stay in those regions.
 
StriderX said:
How is willingly accepting violent subjugation and the likely pogroms that will occur as a result with anyone holding Ukrainian statehood sympathies what's 'best' for Ukraine?
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Exactly, and further weakening their country leaving it even more open and vulnerable to the whims of Russia down the line? Its exactly what Russia want, Ukraine and its people are fighting for their lives and hard won freedom only to have it taken away at anytime in the future and there'll be nothing they can do this time.
 
Powerful piece in The Spectator about the writer fleeing Moscow and the state of things on the ground in Russia. Particularly interesting section at the end:

Things fall apart. Aeroflot’s deputy head has resigned and fled the country. A top cabinet minister has offered their resignation to Putin, which has not been accepted. A friend reports that oligarchs are telling him that elements in the military are behind the defence minister Sergei Shoigu to replace Putin, while the moneyed elite back the Moscow mayor Sergei Sobyanin. And Putin himself? ‘He has to die. It will be too dangerous to leave him alive.’​
 
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Mr Jack said:
Powerful piece in The Spectator about the writer fleeing Moscow and the state of things on the ground in Russia. Particularly interesting section at the end:

Things fall apart. Aeroflot’s deputy head has resigned and fled the country. A top cabinet minister has offered their resignation to Putin, which has not been accepted. A friend reports that oligarchs are telling him that elements in the military are behind the defence minister Sergei Shoigu to replace Putin, while the moneyed elite back the Moscow mayor Sergei Sobyanin. And Putin himself? ‘He has to die. It will be too dangerous to leave him alive.’​
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Going to take that with a sizable quantity of sodium chloride.
 
BowdonUK said:
This is a clash between east and west.

Ukraine isn't going to win the fight. Because Russia can't afford to lose…
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Id counter that and suggest Russia can’t afford to win this. Literally. And Ukraine can’t afford to lose.
Sure Russia can ww2 it and throw bodies at it but that will only get you so far in todays battlefields of smart bombs and uav. I’m not sure they’ll have the capability to mass produce such things with sanctions in place. We’ve seen videos of their top of the line stealth airplanes flying low to drop unguided bombs!

It’s not like the French surrender, and let’s not forget the British retreat (for those so keen to label the French as surrender monkies) in ww2. That was a stark choice of fight and get wiped out or live to fight another day. Ukraine surrenders then there is no fight another day as their ability to fight will be dismantled and they’ll see old soviet surveillance kick in.
 
dLockers said:
So once you've legitimised Russia's invasion, who next? Taiwan?
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I've not legitimised the invasion. NATO and others have by not being prepared to use our own nukes. NATO have taken the path of physical appeasement from the start. Taiwan will probably be next. Because the precedent is being set that as China has nukes nobody will fight them directly.

Hagar said:
Yeah we should have rolled over for Hitler after Dunkirk and during the Battle of Britain. After all it was an impossible situation and many were being killed. :rolleyes:
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Hitler didn't have a nuke-like bomb. If he did I suspect WW2 would have played out differently.

Slam62 said:
Yeah great idea, give up are you French?
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It's not a matter of giving up. It's a matter of being practical. In your mind can Ukraine win? If so, what does winning look like?
 
Washout said:
Id counter that and suggest Russia can’t afford to win this. Literally. And Ukraine can’t afford to lose.
Sure Russia can ww2 it and throw bodies at it but that will only get you so far in todays battlefields of smart bombs and uav. I’m not sure they’ll have the capability to mass produce such things with sanctions in place. We’ve seen videos of their top of the line stealth airplanes flying low to drop unguided bombs!

It’s not like the French surrender, and let’s not forget the British retreat (for those so keen to label the French as surrender monkies) in ww2. That was a stark choice of fight and get wiped out or live to fight another day. Ukraine surrenders then there is no fight another day as their ability to fight will be dismantled and they’ll see old soviet surveillance kick in.
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Not sure they can really afford to use their limited amount of SU-57s, but I guess if it's stealth capabilities is actually working then I suppose it's better than losing pilots.
 
0007 said:
*Russia Bans Exports of Turbines, Vehicles, and Select Types of Timber. – IFAX
*The Russian Government Has Announced That It Will Ban the Export of Technology, Telecommunications, Medical, Auto, Agricultural, and Electrical Equipment Until the End of 2022.
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*Russia Export Bans Applies Only to Previously Imported Goods – IFAX
https://twitter.com/PriapusIQ/status/1501893084208148482
 
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and, how much are the oligarchs assets worth - if Syria reconstruction costs are any indication
THE COSTS OF RECONSTRUCTION
The widespread destruction in Syria since March 2011 has been disastrous for the economy, and the costs of repairing this damage are quite daunting. In early 2019, estimates of the cost of rebuilding the country ranged from $250 billion to $400 billion, figures that dwarf the entire government’s 2018 budget of 3.9 trillion Syrian pounds, or around $8.9 billion. Of that budget, the amount allocated for reconstruction was 50 billion Syrian pounds, which amounts to no more than $115 million. The Syrian government cannot afford such a massive undertaking.
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