Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Mr Jack]

I've not legitimised the invasion. NATO and others have by not being prepared to use our own nukes. NATO have taken the path of physical appeasement from the start.

It's now very clearly that the West collectively failed to understand Putin and it's led to this. We must learn from this.

Taiwan will probably be next. Because the precedent is being set that as China has nukes nobody will fight them directly.

Interestingly, the growing view is that China is now much less likely to attack Taiwan after seeing the level of sanctions levelled as Russia.

It's not a matter of giving up. It's a matter of being practical. In your mind can Ukraine win? If so, what does winning look like?

I think if you're right and Ukraine have no chance, then your argument is rational (even if I find it repulsive on an emotional level) but I don't think it's clear that Ukraine has no chance. Russia is bogged down and taking heavy losses, meanwhile the international reaction is battering their country. A peace deal that secures most of Ukraine's goals is a plausible outcome.

 

[Freddie1980]

I was watching Triggernometry and Konstantin Kisin commentary on the situation in Ukraine last night.

I have to agree with him that the best for Ukraine and its people right now is to sign an agreement with Russia. Because the longer the fight goes on for the more heavier attacks Russia will do, killing more people.

NATO isn't going to get directly involved in Ukraine and we're not going to enforce a no-fly zone. So it's a war of attrition that Russia will eventually win.

To save Ukrainian lives I think it's in their interest to come to the table now. The Ukrainian fighters and people have fought harder than anyone else in the world to defend their land. Now they need to try and come out of revenge mode against Russia for the attrocities that have been committed. Understandably that will be difficult for many Ukrainians.

I'm sure Ukraine is willing to talk with Russia and come to some sort of agreement but if your Ukrainian how can you trust if Russia will stay true to anything Russia signs up to? It's piece of paper at the end of day and it's been shown time after time Russia has no qualms in ignoring prior agreements if it no longer suits them.

 

[fez]

I think if you're right and Ukraine have no chance, then your argument is rational (even if I find it repulsive on an emotional level) but I don't think it's clear that Ukraine has no chance. Russia is bogged down and taking heavy losses, meanwhile the international reaction is battering their country. A peace deal that secures most of Ukraine's goals is a plausible outcome.

I think Ukraine will tell Russia that the terms of the peace treaty is that they just **** off back to Russia.

The problem is that no matter how this plays out, I don't think Putin can back down now. Hes made a massive miscalculation. The world ignored Crimea, they are not ignoring this. The cynic in me thinks that part of the reason the world is taking such serious action is because it diverts from the massive amount of issues a lost of countries are facing at home.

 

[Turn]

*Russia Bans Exports of Turbines, Vehicles, and Select Types of Timber. – IFAX
*The Russian Government Has Announced That It Will Ban the Export of Technology, Telecommunications, Medical, Auto, Agricultural, and Electrical Equipment Until the End of 2022.
*Russia Export Bans Applies Only to Previously Imported Goods – IFAX

*Russian Government Says It Bans Export of Railway Cars, Metal, Stone Processing Machines, Monitor, Projectors, Consoles and Panels Until End of 2022 - RIA
*Russian Govt. Bans More than 200 Types of Goods for Export
https://ria.ru/20220310/ekonomika-1777479140.html

 

[Tombstone]

Yeah we should have rolled over for Hitler after Dunkirk and during the Battle of Britain. After all it was an impossible situation and many were being killed.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, its not the best of analogies because we werent the only country who was militarily at war with Germany at the time. Despite the aid being given to Ukraine, they stand militarily alone and it currently looks like it will be staying that way. So that particular analogy doesnt really work in this instance.

 

[supafly]

Notes for future dictators:

1. Build nuclear weapon.
2. Enjoy doing whatever you like.

No need to spend billions on aircraft carriers, hundreds of millions on jets and tens of millions on other armaments.

You can save that money for mansions, yachts and whatever else takes your fancy.

 

[Mr Jack]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, its not the best of analogies because we werent the only country who was militarily at war with Germany at the time. Despite the aid being given to Ukraine, they stand militarily alone and it currently looks like it will be staying that way. So that particular analogy doesnt really work in this instance.

The more accurate comparison is too Sudetenland, I think. We're at the appeasement stage of WW3, not the global conflict stage - and maybe we can still stop it happening.

 

[Tombstone]

The more accurate comparison is too Sudetenland, I think. We're at the appeasement stage of WW3, not the global conflict stage - and maybe we can still stop it happening.

Yes, the appeasement stage would be a fair comparison

 

[Sankari]

I was watching Triggernometry and Konstantin Kisin commentary on the situation in Ukraine last night.

I have to agree with him that the best for Ukraine and its people right now is to sign an agreement with Russia. Because the longer the fight goes on for the more heavier attacks Russia will do, killing more people.

NATO isn't going to get directly involved in Ukraine and we're not going to enforce a no-fly zone. So it's a war of attrition that Russia will eventually win.

To save Ukrainian lives I think it's in their interest to come to the table now. The Ukrainian fighters and people have fought harder than anyone else in the world to defend their land. Now they need to try and come out of revenge mode against Russia for the attrocities that have been committed. Understandably that will be difficult for many Ukrainians.

I am not even remotely surprised than Kisin's proposal is a craven surrender. What would Ukraine have to give up in order to satisfy Putin? Why sign an agreement that we all know Russia is only going to break further down the track?

No, Ukraine must fight to the death and the West must support her. If we can maintain the flow of money and weapons, Ukraine can outlast the invaders.

 

[ianh]

Notes for future dictators:

1. Build nuclear weapon.
2. Enjoy doing whatever you like.

No need to spend billions on aircraft carriers, hundreds of millions on jets and tens of millions on other armaments.

You can save that money for mansions, yachts and whatever else takes your fancy.

Thats why so many countries are desperate to build nukes and why the rest of the work is almost as desperate to stop that happening.

No-one "wants" to use Nukes but having them, and the risk to everyone else that you might use them, gives countries a huge amount of leeway in the real world.

However for a large amount of people with no clue how the world works, not risking WW3 and the death of billions makes you a pro-Putin appeaser apparently.

 

[robfosters]

Powerful piece in The Spectator about the writer fleeing Moscow and the state of things on the ground in Russia. Particularly interesting section at the end:

Things fall apart. Aeroflot’s deputy head has resigned and fled the country. A top cabinet minister has offered their resignation to Putin, which has not been accepted. A friend reports that oligarchs are telling him that elements in the military are behind the defence minister Sergei Shoigu to replace Putin, while the moneyed elite back the Moscow mayor Sergei Sobyanin. And Putin himself? ‘He has to die. It will be too dangerous to leave him alive.’​

If the army turn against him, how’s he gonna launch his nukes?

 

[SideWinder]

Famous sniper has turned up...

The most famous sniper "Wali" has arrived in #Ukraine to fight against occupiers The average productivity of sniper is 7 men a day. On the front type like Ukrainian, productivity can reach up to 10. "Wali" can provide up to 40 deaths per day.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1501739564511240192?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1501739564511240192|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.redditmedia.com/mediaembed/liveupdate/18hnzysb1elcs/LiveUpdate_74e808da-a022-11ec-9ade-7675bcbf7848/0

Kinda like that film...Enemy at the Gates?

 

[Hook]

I think Ukraine will tell Russia that the terms of the peace treaty is that they just **** off back to Russia.
The problem is that no matter how this plays out, I don't think Putin can back down now. Hes made a massive miscalculation. The world ignored Crimea, they are not ignoring this. The cynic in me thinks that part of the reason the world is taking such serious action is because it diverts from the massive amount of issues a lost of countries are facing at home.

refering to Pavel Felgenhauer Military analyst in Moscov, Russia had no plans for this lasting over 2 weeks and have put in all they can spare, while Ukrainia is getting stronger. They are calling in reserves with combat experiense and have unlimited weapons from the west. He like you also belives Putin will never back down, the only way Ukraina ends/wins this is with the military.

(edit: video link is in my previous post)

 

[Turn]

*US Vice-President Harris: We Have Been Witnessing Atrocities of Unimaginable Proportions in Ukraine
*US Vice-President Harris: The US Will Do Everything It Can to Support Ukraine’s Needs.
*US Vice-President Harris: The U.S. Commitment to Article 5 Is Iron-Clad
*US Vice-President Harris: We Are Prepared to Defend Every Inch of NATO Territory
*US Vice-President Harris: We Have Delivered Patriot Missile Systems to Poland
*US Vice-President Harris: U.S. to give an additional $50 million to WFP to help with humanitarian aid in Ukraine
https://youtu.be/T42N5YmkRQQ (still live)

 

[Semple]

It's not a matter of giving up. It's a matter of being practical. In your mind can Ukraine win? If so, what does winning look like?

Ultimately winning looks like freedom for Ukraine. I do get what you're saying, but that's not a price that Ukrainian's are willing to pay. They would rather fight to the last man even if it means their entire country is flattened.

Going by the rebuild figures in Syria posted above, Ukraine's GDP is about 150bn. So the loans they'd borrow to rebuild the country will likely take the best part of 50-100 years to pay off.

 

[Semple]

I think Ukraine will tell Russia that the terms of the peace treaty is that they just **** off back to Russia.

The problem is that no matter how this plays out, I don't think Putin can back down now. Hes made a massive miscalculation. The world ignored Crimea, they are not ignoring this. The cynic in me thinks that part of the reason the world is taking such serious action is because it diverts from the massive amount of issues a lost of countries are facing at home.

Yeah absolutely. I don't think the world could just sit by and slap Russia with a few feeble sanctions. It was also needed to send a message to the Chinese about their thoughts on taking Taiwan in the same manner.

 

[Uther]

Famous sniper has turned up...

The most famous sniper "Wali" has arrived in #Ukraine to fight against occupiers The average productivity of sniper is 7 men a day. On the front type like Ukrainian, productivity can reach up to 10. "Wali" can provide up to 40 deaths per day.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1501739564511240192?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1501739564511240192|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.redditmedia.com/mediaembed/liveupdate/18hnzysb1elcs/LiveUpdate_74e808da-a022-11ec-9ade-7675bcbf7848/0

Kinda like that film...Enemy at the Gates?

He turned up a while ago, probably why Russian generals are getting a bullet in the head.

 

[Tombstone]

Famous sniper has turned up...

The most famous sniper "Wali" has arrived in #Ukraine to fight against occupiers The average productivity of sniper is 7 men a day. On the front type like Ukrainian, productivity can reach up to 10. "Wali" can provide up to 40 deaths per day.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1501739564511240192?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1501739564511240192|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.redditmedia.com/mediaembed/liveupdate/18hnzysb1elcs/LiveUpdate_74e808da-a022-11ec-9ade-7675bcbf7848/0

Kinda like that film...Enemy at the Gates?

If he is as godlike as that with a sniper rifle, cant he go to Russia and pop Putin in the head instead?

 

[Hook]

He turned up a while ago, probably why Russian generals are getting a bullet in the head.

Wonder how long till Putin sends in the Ccommissars.

 

[Mr Jack]

The most famous sniper "Wali" has arrived in #Ukraine to fight against occupiers The average productivity of sniper is 7 men a day. On the front type like Ukrainian, productivity can reach up to 10. "Wali" can provide up to 40 deaths per day.

Good. But does anyone else find it rather chilling to have these killings referred to as "productivity"?