Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
- Thread starter areksnumbr1sxylady
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Been wondering the same. I imagine a lot of them don't want to leave their homes, become refugees and endure the harsh climate, traipsing though the mud, the cold, wind up in an unknown destination etc without all your creature comforts.
That might sound foolish, but to begin with, the shelling was nowhere near as intense as what it has been recently, so many probably hoped they could wait it out. There's also the fact that the refugee corridors came under attack, so there's another reason to hunker down, alongside the human trafficking into Russia under the guise of refugee convoys.
I think that the prevelence of war crimes goes along with the use of mercenary groups which Russia employs worldwide and the USA has also been known to employ alongside regular units. The command structure does not go to the top in all cases. I make no excuse for Putin as I know he has always been a murderer, however I am sure that he does not know what the Chechens or the Wagner group or his latest employees, the Syrians will be doing on the ground and probably does not care.
What signals a lie is the purity. That absolutely now Russian involvement occurred and that russia military are perfect. Well if we know the latter is a load of tosh. Then it's only a matter of QED.
Is it me or is Putin attempting to stop “retreating/withdrawing” troops from being slaughtered? Only then to redeploy them elsewhere? Also attempting to use the UN to gold only his own annexed Ukrainian land?
I suspect Ukrainians want to teach putin a lesson he will not forget. Ukrainian farmers and land owners will not want putin invalidating their right and giving the land to russian farmers.
Allow UN discussion.
Come to no conclusion.
But UN votes to send peacekeeping force and enforce no fly zone, made up of NATO member countries under UN banner
I know it won't happen.
Is it me or is Putin attempting to stop “retreating/withdrawing” troops from being slaughtered? Only then to redeploy them elsewhere? Also attempting to use the UN to gold only his own annexed Ukrainian land?
I suspect Ukrainians want to teach putin a lesson he will not forget. Ukrainian farmers and land owners will not want putin invalidating their right and giving the land to russian farmers.
Unless surrendering by treaty, they are still enemy combatants occupying another country. Germany still strafed retreating troops at Dunkirk.
— Bloomberg (CET Time)
*Ukrainian Lugansk Authorities: Russian Forces Prepare to Launch Attack on the Area After Mobilizing Fighters and Vehicles — AJA
*Arab League Foreign Ministers to Meet Lavrov, Kuleba
*Poland Proposes Ban on EU Visas for Russians
*EU Says It Holds Russia Responsible for Atrocities
*Ukrainian Lugansk Authorities: Russian Forces Prepare to Launch Attack on the Area After Mobilizing Fighters and Vehicles — AJA
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This is quite compelling. Unless NATO is worried about Ukrainian friendly fire, I can't think of any reason not to do this whilst the time is opportune.
It would put the ball back in Putin's court, where the prospect of venturing West would mean willingly engaging NATO. Something he won't do, so this is a solid move in my opinion.
Playing devils advocate here, are you actually able to refute those allegations?
*UK’s Foreign Minister Truss Will Meet Ukraine, Poland’s Foreign Ministers; to Discuss Tougher Sanctions Against Russia.
*UK’s Foreign Minister Truss: Putin Is yet to Show He Is Serious About Diplomacy
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...tions-against-russia-poland-visit-2022-04-04/
*German Economy Minister Habeck: Germany Is Working on Reducing Reliance on Russian Energy.
*German Economy Minister Habeck: The EU Clearly Has More Room for Further Sanctions on Russia.
*German Economy Minister Habeck: If Gas Is Not Avaliable, We Will Need to Return to Coal.
*BdB Lobby President Sewing: German Banks See Considerable Recession in Germany if There Is a Halt to Russian Oil, Gas Imports.
*Governor of Ukraine’s Chernihiv Region: Russian Forces Have Left Chernihiv City, Some Russian Troops Remain in the Chernihiv Region. — RTRS
*UK’s Foreign Minister Truss: Putin Is yet to Show He Is Serious About Diplomacy
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...tions-against-russia-poland-visit-2022-04-04/
*German Economy Minister Habeck: Germany Is Working on Reducing Reliance on Russian Energy.
*German Economy Minister Habeck: The EU Clearly Has More Room for Further Sanctions on Russia.
*German Economy Minister Habeck: If Gas Is Not Avaliable, We Will Need to Return to Coal.
*BdB Lobby President Sewing: German Banks See Considerable Recession in Germany if There Is a Halt to Russian Oil, Gas Imports.
*Governor of Ukraine’s Chernihiv Region: Russian Forces Have Left Chernihiv City, Some Russian Troops Remain in the Chernihiv Region. — RTRS
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Some claims are so stupid that even bothering to engage with them is giving them too much credit.
You’re volunteering the UK to give up its veto?
Seems like there's a lot of eye witness accounts, and there were journalists into those regions quickly after liberation. In the extremely unlikely event these atrocities were staged by Ukraine it almost wouldn't even matter because no one [of any import] believes a word the Russians say anymore. They've totally destroyed their own credibility with their constant laughable lies.
*The Kremlin Condemns Comments by Poland’s Ruling Party Leader That Warsaw Would Be Open to Having Us Nuclear Weapons on Its Soil.
*The Kremlin Has Refused to Comment on How the Bucha Allegations Will Affect the Talks.
*The Kremlin: It Categorically Rejects Any Accusations
*The Kremlin: We Have No Information on the Status of the Russia-Ukraine Peace Talks.
*The Kremlin Has Stated That Russia Desires and Demands That the Issue Be Discussed at an International Level.
*German Foreign Ministry Spokesperson, on Expelling Russian Diplomats: All Options Are on the Table.
*German Economy Ministry Spokesperson: Gas Embargo Would Have Economic Consequences for Germany, Must Therefore Act Prudently
*German Economy Ministry Spokesperson: Want to Reduce Russian Energy Dependency, Looking at “Complex” Situation of Rosneft, Gazprom Activities in Germany
*EBRD Board of Governors Votes to Suspend Access for Russia, Belarus to Its Financing, Bank Resources.
*The Kremlin Has Refused to Comment on How the Bucha Allegations Will Affect the Talks.
*The Kremlin: It Categorically Rejects Any Accusations
*The Kremlin: We Have No Information on the Status of the Russia-Ukraine Peace Talks.
*The Kremlin Has Stated That Russia Desires and Demands That the Issue Be Discussed at an International Level.
*German Govt Spokesperson, on Further Sanctions vs Russia, - Will Agree Further Measures in Coming Days
*German Foreign Ministry Spokesperson, on Expelling Russian Diplomats: All Options Are on the Table.
*German Economy Ministry Spokesperson: Gas Embargo Would Have Economic Consequences for Germany, Must Therefore Act Prudently
*German Economy Ministry Spokesperson: Want to Reduce Russian Energy Dependency, Looking at “Complex” Situation of Rosneft, Gazprom Activities in Germany
*EBRD Board of Governors Votes to Suspend Access for Russia, Belarus to Its Financing, Bank Resources.
*The World Is Piling on Debt As It Battles Inflation — WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-world-is-piling-on-debt-as-it-battles-inflation-11649064601
*JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Says Big Risks Loom for the U.S. Economy — WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/jpmorg...ig-risks-loom-for-the-u-s-economy-11649045322
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-world-is-piling-on-debt-as-it-battles-inflation-11649064601
*JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Says Big Risks Loom for the U.S. Economy — WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/jpmorg...ig-risks-loom-for-the-u-s-economy-11649045322
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I mean it's coming from a country that said they're not invading ukraine, have invaded, committed those crimes and now are saying it wasn't us? they've been lying constantly, why would you trust them now?
I mean, god forbid, but if you came home to find someone had broken in and you found your family murdered... it'd take a 'brave' defense council to turn to around to the jury and say, 'well, they may have done it to make my client look bad!'
So you're wanting NATO planes to shoot down Russian planes if they go into West Ukraine? If we did that then why would Russia not feel able to attack NATO air bases launching those air patrols with cruise missiles? Then if they did that, Russia has launched an attack on a NATO member state invoking article 5, so suddenly NATO is at war with Russia. You're happy with that outcome? NATO in a total war state with Russia, both nuclear armed powers, potentially escalating into a strategic nuclear exchange leading to the deaths of 1 billion people according to a US study, in defense of a non-NATO member in Ukraine who are currently pushing back Russia and have held Kyiv simply with our support
Not saying I think Nato should directly get involved, more thinking should give them top end missile defense and MIGs, BUT... if they were to keep a no fly zone over western Ukraine then in theory it shouldn't matter overly to the Russians (militarily) given their statements about 'freeing' the east. It'd be a nuisance but not the real reason their attempt would succeed or fail.
Russia wouldn't really strike at Nato airbases with cruise missiles, in your scenario, because cruise missiles can be nuclear tipped. With no way for Nato to know would they risk striking an airfield that's just one of dozens nato can use and in so doing risk the annihilation of all their cities and the vast majority of their population? For what? A mig getting shot down that strayed west of the dnieper?
I don't think they're that eager to all die with all their friends and family when Russia itself is not being attacked.
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It's an interesting idea.
Say the Ukranian government invites NATO or say Poland to provide military support and a no fly zone is outlined with clear boundaries are Russia likely to respect it? If they don't and their planes are shot down (highly likely given their disaster of a military) what are they going to do? We've seen Turkey down a Russian plane without much drama.
*Ukraine Finance Minister Says: We Don’t Want to Create Debt Burden That Will Weigh on Economy After War
*Spanish Authorities Detain Super Yacht Suspected to Belong to a Russian Oligarch in Mallorca, Police Say — RTRS
https://financialpost.com/pmn/busin...on-of-monthly-oil-and-gas-output-data-sources
*Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov Has Described the Situation in the Ukrainian Town of Bucha As a Fake Attack, — TASS.
*Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov: Moscow Will Demand That UK Fulfill Its Responsibilities As U.N. Security Council Chair — TASS
https://tass.ru/politika/14272727
*A Russian analytical unit affiliated with the Energy Ministry did not publish monthly oil and gas output data on April 2, according to two clients, the first delay in years amid reports of a production decline. — RTRS
*Russia’s March Oil Production at 46.57 Mln Tonnes — Interfax.
*Russia Boosts 1q Oil Production to 135.52m Tons — Interfax.
*Spanish Authorities Detain Super Yacht Suspected to Belong to a Russian Oligarch in Mallorca, Police Say — RTRS
https://financialpost.com/pmn/busin...on-of-monthly-oil-and-gas-output-data-sources
*Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov Has Described the Situation in the Ukrainian Town of Bucha As a Fake Attack, — TASS.
*Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov: Moscow Will Demand That UK Fulfill Its Responsibilities As U.N. Security Council Chair — TASS
https://tass.ru/politika/14272727
*A Russian analytical unit affiliated with the Energy Ministry did not publish monthly oil and gas output data on April 2, according to two clients, the first delay in years amid reports of a production decline. — RTRS
*Russia’s March Oil Production at 46.57 Mln Tonnes — Interfax.
*Russia Boosts 1q Oil Production to 135.52m Tons — Interfax.
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Putin won't risk it. The absolute worst case for Putin is that NATO actually gets involved. But, yes, we should threaten Russia and then follow through with maximum prejudice if he dares to cross our lines.
So we just sit back and let genocide occur because of the fanciful idea that Putin is going to escalate into a nuclear war? No, Russia won't launch nukes unless it is actually invaded, or we launch first. Entering the war in Ukraine and driving Russia out of the country (or, more likely, into a rapid surrender) isn't going to trigger a nuclear war.
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