Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Hagar]

It would be best for everyone for Ukraine to take a minor loss in the East in the short term, then long term rot the Russian economy and turn them into North Korea. People can't see past their noses though apparently.

They will keep coming back. How much of a loss? Mariupol, Odesa. All the way to Moldova. They have the dissidents in place to false flag attacks, then another self defence action encroaching another dozen miles.
Nobody wants a nuclear war but if you don't stand up to him Putin will be into The Baltic States or Finland on the pretext of a defensive action.

 

[Minusorange]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519681234317852672

I think there's going to be little chance of the world meeting its climate goals thanks to this war and the potential for it to expand

 

[StriderX]

The crazies really have gone full tilt here. You want to have a nuke battle with Russia if they strike another country ?
So no longer are our nukes used for our defense(as a deterrent) but you want to launch them at other countries who didn't even strike us(with nukes).

No I do not, but a conventional response that damages Russia's goals would be critical to ensuring that they can't just nuke whatever they like, to allow it to occur without consequence would be an existential error for the West. Hopefully said response would be to secure every oblast in Ukraine that isn't currently under siege with a coalition of willing Western militaries, I'd also particularly like major settlements to be covered by Patriot/THAAD systems.

 

[Hagar]

I think there's going to be little chance of the world meeting its climate goals thanks to this war and the potential for it to expand

That depends, in the extreme worse case the main contributor to climate change could itself be in danger of extinction.

 

[bingham67]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519646335829520384

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519640219905048577

 

[SPG]

That and the largest and best nukes going, but hey

Does it even matter ? Throw in the USA arsenal (which they wont use) in Europe they themselves are safe(ish) So your down to the UK and Frances arsenal. That's more than enough devastation to make Russia no more, buy hey.

 

[Mr Jack]

I think there's going to be little chance of the world meeting its climate goals thanks to this war and the potential for it to expand

I don't think it makes much difference. If anything it will motivate Western nations to accelerate their renewable (and nuclear) programmes and severe their dependence on oil and gas from dubious regimes. That fire is ugly, but I doubt it contributes much to climate change, ultimately the carbon in grass and leaves returns to the atmosphere relatively rapidly whether through decay or fire; and much larger areas than that burn every year.

 

[Minusorange]

That depends, in the extreme worse case the main contributor to climate change could itself be in danger of extinction.

While we are gradually weening ourselves off that contributor it's still going to take time and I don't think we'll be off it before that time runs out because I think time has already run out to make a substantial difference on what is coming, anything we do now to combat the eventual catastrophic shift in our climate is just to lessen the potential the blow and that's without getting into the issue of plastics which are also linked heavily to that contributor

I don't think it makes much difference. If anything it will motivate Western nations to accelerate their renewable (and nuclear) programmes and severe their dependence on oil and gas from dubious regimes. That fire is ugly, but I doubt it contributes much to climate change, ultimately the carbon in grass and leaves returns to the atmosphere relatively rapidly whether through decay or fire; and much larger areas than that burn every year.

I'm not saying that 1 fire is going to make a difference, but it's one of many many fires so it will make a difference when they're all added up

 

[Mr Badger]

Because if NATO actually enters the war, Russia gets flattened in Ukraine. No ifs, no buts; they're toast. Basically a primary school squad playing against Man U level of getting thumped.

Not the best example right now

In this analogy Russia is Man U and NATO is the primary school squad that will do the stomping.

 

[Hagar]

While we are gradually weening ourselves off that contributor it's still going to take time and I don't think we'll be off it before that time runs out because I think time has already run out to make a substantial difference on what is coming, anything we do now to combat the eventual catastrophic shift in our climate is just to lessen the potential the blow and that's without getting into the issue of plastics which are also linked heavily to that contributor

I was talking about the human race, obviously a little too obtusely.

 

[Roar87]

So you would be ok giving up Leeds to an invading army that commits rape, torture and killing to save other areas?

No, I would fight and that would be fine, it is fine for people in Ukraine to fight for their country. For the rest of the world we should limit our assistance to one which doesn't make us the military industry of Ukraine because that risks escalating to a level that simply is not worth it. Similarly I may take a loss on losing my wallet to someone with a knife to my throat rather than fight him to the death over a £20 note.

 

[Turn]

*White House Requests Additional $33 Billion in Military, Economic and Humanitarian Aid for Ukraine — WSJ
*President Biden Delivers Remarks on Ukraine: https://youtu.be/qfVc4G506UI

*Biden: We Have to Do Our Part to Help Ukraine
*Biden: Need Aid Bill to Support Ukraine in Fight for Freedom
*Biden: Need to Contribute Arms, Ammunition, Economic Support
*Biden: We’re Not Attacking Russia; We’re Helping Ukraine Defend Itself Against Russian Aggression
*Biden: World Must and Will Hold Russia Accountable
*Biden: We Also Propose to Congress to Strengthen Law Enforcement’s Ability to Take Property Tied to Russian Oligarchs.
*Biden: No One Should Be Making Idle Comments About Use of Nuclear Weapons
*Biden: Not Concerned About a Recession After GDP Data
*Biden: Ukraine and Covid Aid Needs to Get Done, No Matter What.

*US Senate Republican Leader Mcconnellon on Ukraine Aid, We Need to Replenish Our Stockpiles
*Bulgaria Minister: Bulgaria Is Considering Suing Gazprom Over the Halt.

 

[StriderX]

No, I would fight and that would be fine, it is fine for people in Ukraine to fight for their country. For the rest of the world we should limit our assistance to one which doesn't make us the military industry of Ukraine because that risks escalating to a level that simply is not worth it. Similarly I may take a loss on losing my wallet to someone with a knife to my throat rather than fight him to the death over a £20 note.

It's not just losing a £20 note though is it? It's also ensuring that thief will come back for your house next.

Russia will never merely accept Crimea or the Donbass in exchange for no further aggression because they have already betrayed their last promise to respect Ukraine's sovereignty.

 

[bingham67]

A British man has been killed in Ukraine and a second Briton is missing after the men are thought to have joined local forces fighting Russia.

The UK's Foreign Office confirmed that the British national had been killed in Ukraine.

It is thought that the two men had joined local forces in Ukraine as volunteers and had been fighting against Russian forces, but this remains unconfirmed.

Russia publishes names of 100 Brit 'mercenaries fighting for Ukraine'

Scott Sibley, a veteran of the British armed forces, has been named by friends as the Briton who died in Ukraine.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Dis86]

Just to play devils advocate for a moment, what's the reasonable alternative? A governments foremost duty is to protect it's citizens, this includes keeping them warm and fed. If depriving themselves of Russian energy means sacrificing the general wellbeing of their own people then what's the point?

There's short term and long term ways of ensuring your people are safe. Shutting down your warmongering neighbours economy would be a long term win.

 

[Turn]

*Senior US Defence Official: Russia’s Progress in Donbas Is Slow And Uneven.
*Senior US Defence Official: Some Russian Forces Have Been Departing Mariupol Area Towards Northwest Even As Fight for It Continues.
*Senior US Defence Official: More Than 60% of 90 Howitzers for Ukraine Have Arrived
*Senior US Defence Official: U.S. Carrying Out Training for Ukrainians Outside of Ukraine on Q64 Mobile Radar System
https://twitter.com/jseldin/status/1519698255059292162 - More of a transcript w/ a lot more details than I have

Spoiler: *Old-Fashioned Artillery Proves a Big Plus for Ukraine’s Forces — BBG

*Austria: European Commission Approved Russia Gas Payments. Payments Are in Accordance With Sanctions.
*Two Powerful Blasts Heard in Russian Region of Belgorod Bordering Ukraine — Two Witnesses

 

[Blackjack Davy]

We beat Russia in the Cold War by avoiding direct conflict, I mean I don't disagree with sending small arms to Ukraine, but we need to be clear that Ukraine should fight a defensive war and NATO shouldn't be their military industry because that makes us legitimate targets. These are facts. If we're supplying heavy arms to Ukraine then why aren't we a target?

Economic and political stagnation is what did for the USSR by the end the shelves were empty as the planned economy simply wasn't working people were driving ladas and other rust heaps on wheels assuming they could get one at all with waiting lists years long and everyone could see the West's economic model was working and theirs wasn't. There was an abortive attempt to introduce western style political reforms as well as economic but its since regressed into old style authoritarianism and political stagnation. Hitting the economy seems to be the best option for hitting the average russian where it hurts unfortunately russias vast oil and especially gas exports is directly funding Putin's war and until theres an end to that I don't see an end to Putin's ambitions

Lavrov's right about us being involved in a proxy war with russia - our strategy is to make sure it stays that way the moment our arms cross the border they're a target for attacks and the russians couldn't have made that clearer, the risk is their missiles stray across the border but I imagine NATO won't instantly launch nukes they'll limit it to harsh words at least initially but theres no doubt the risk of escalation is there its just a matter of how far the russians want to push it and right now they're pretty ambitious -

 

[bingham67]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519706401630732288

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519701381636108290

 

[Harlequin]

Im actually stunned the 5th columnists on here are advocating just giving up to Russia.....

 

[bris]

I’m very concerned with the way we’re behaving. We’re becoming the most aggressive of all the NATO nations. Its a high risk move and we should reign it in.

Truss‘ attempt to appear like a Poundland Maggie Thatcher is very dangerous.

So Russia can just do as it wants? And we say what, it,s ok it,s just Ukrain?
this response from Ukrain has knocked them for six , the response from the NATO countries, arming Ukrain has hit them even harder.

Russia will not be bulling any one any more for a long time.

The school bully has been kicked in the nuts. To hear some people say just give them the Dombass is like saying if the come here they can just keep Wales.

If they got away with this they would be all over Europe again in a couple of years. United we have a bigger stick, Putin will find a way out, claim a victory and crawl under his rock. This has pushed him under a bus, when the fighting stops the in fighting begins.