Not that we'll see any fundamental leaps in performance - but in a lot of cases now with games using some ray tracing they've got all the performance hit of a conventional renderer then a large part of the overhead of a ray tracing/path tracing implementation just to use a few token RT effects. With Metro where they use much less conventional features and lean more on RT the performance impact is a bit different.
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Poll: Do you care for Ray Tracing "now"?
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Not that we'll see any fundamental leaps in performance - but in a lot of cases now with games using some ray tracing they've got all the performance hit of a conventional renderer then a large part of the overhead of a ray tracing/path tracing implementation just to use a few token RT effects. With Metro where they use much less conventional features and lean more on RT the performance impact is a bit different.
Caporegime
To the 68.2% of people who voted in this poll that they do not care about RT either now or at all, I ask you to watch this video and tell me if this kind of graphically fidelity would make you change your mind?
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No idea. Certainly will in the future. Not sure if I do now. The problem is, if you haven't seen it yet, it's difficult to make up your mind about it, let alone decide if you like it more than the things you have to crank down so you can crank RT up… or if you want to sacrifice 6750XT's slightly higher rasterization performance and lower price and more VRAM in favour of 3070's support for RT. When it comes to RT vs no RT in the 3060/6600 leagues, I'm even more confused.I certainly will care in a while, but whether I care right now is precisely the question that's holding me from making a GPU purchase literally right now, because I'm sitting here exasperated trying to figure out if I'm going to take the green route or the red.
Here's a better comparison of RT within DL2 -
Even though my GPU is undervolted and CPU both undervolted and power starved, I still get 80-105+ FPS with everything maxed out at 1440p. I'd gladly sacrifice some of that performance for a shadow casting flashlight, but I doubt we will ever get that now.
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I'm really hoping I'm missing the joke/punchline here but you do realise that's not ray tracing, right?
That's SSR and is why I love RT as you don't get that behaviour with the reflection disappearing.... DL 2 sadly only uses RT reflections for certain areas/things. DF or maybe it was the video above by wrinkly where they talk about it in their video.So seems I'm right as per usual @Wrinkly @TNA Specsavers or people don't understand/know what to look for in RT which very much invalidates most of the no/not yet votes imo
This is why I always recommend likes of DF as they can explain it very well and do great in depth comparisons on this kind of tech:
Much better show cases for RT reflections are cp 2077 (try driving around night city when it's been raining), control, doom eternal (when you get to the metal demon base), wd: legion etc.
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Caporegime
@Nexus18 I found some nice reflections in the game and you tell me it's not RT. I should probably turn Ray Traced reflections off then I guess and save me some FPS.
Hmm that guy says the reflections are RT.
DL 2 is only using RT reflections for certain aspects, not everything is RT, same as is the case with FC 6 RT e.g. it's only puddles and some metal surfaces using RT but the sea and larger pools of water are SSR. I can't remember who it was, either DF or some other site that recommended to turn RT reflections off due to it not adding as much to the game as the other RT effects (only if you needed more performance though)@Nexus18 I found some nice reflections in the game and you tell me it's not RT. I should probably turn Ray Traced reflections off then I guess and save me some FPS.
Hmm that guy says the reflections are RT.
Your video is showing the biggest issue with SSR, which is what RT reflections overcomes. Those SSR issues are my biggest annoyance now that I have seen/am used to RT reflections in things like cp 2077, it just makes SSR traits stand out even more.
This ghostwire comparison compares RT reflections to SSR quite well:
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Oooo shiny puddles
I voted "not yet", but could easily have voted no. I certainly don't care about RT any more than the miriad other steps in graphic fidelity in games that have happened over the years.
Perhaps it's because I started out playing games on the Speccy, but I'm not going to get all worked up about another evolutionary improvement if the game isn't fun to play. The pretty-pretty is all well and good, but if I'm bored why should I bother?
If it saves game designers and developers time, then great. Lets hope they do something worthwhile with it. Taking Nexus's example of F1 2022 - to my mind if they do well rendered mirrors (with vibrations - it's F1 after all), then that would enhance the game. On the other hand, beautifully rendered standing water would be pointless if there wasn't an associated decent model for aquaplaning.
Speaking of puddles, the puddles in CP2077 look lovely until you drive through them and they don't splash. Or is that just AMD not rendering things properly again?
In short, my preferred option for the poll would be: "Never will care
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Hmmm… I can certainly appreciate what they've achieved, but at the same time something is lost with RT. Call me old-school, but I'm not sure I'm ready to give up that distinct game-like look compared to what looks like an artificial photograph or video record. Don't get me wrong, I love taking in the view in my games, but I'm not sure I want my RPGs (or other games, but I mostly play RPGs) to look like a TV sitcom or even cinema production shot with normal cameras. It's kind of like some of those problems with CoD triggering PTSD in combat veterans — too much realism is actually not necessarily good. I probably wouldn't like to play something like RDR with complete photographic realism and a controller in my hand that looked and acted like a real gun. With KCD this was more forgiving due to the mediaeval setting already telling your brain this isn't you going outside and stabbing at people. I think there's a place for photorealistic games — for starters, for people who just like them, and in some cases also for me — and it's great that games have been taken to DAI/TW3/KCD level rather than polygon-faced, but at some point there's gotta be a limit, and I think that limit may fall short of photo-realism. Or it could go beyond and into hyperrealism (exaggerated colour gamut, contrast range, etc.). But TV realism wouldn't necessarily be the ideal place for a game to be, in my subjective feel. Looking at the OFF vs ON examples made me realize this. The pews, the ivy… it's quite possible I liked them better in the OFF version, despite its technically lower quality.
Much better than in CP 2077 since you can see yourself in the reflection.
But i agree in your clip they don't look ray traced. Reflections dissapearing when viewed from certain angles is not the most annoying thing for me tbh. I understand it is a game and there are rendering limitations. It is more annoying when someone is talking about RT reflections realism but you can't see yourself in the reflection because the devs were too lazy to make a dummy body for you. Or when you destroy a whole room in Control but it still looks pristine in the reflections because " decals or whatever they are called can't be RT reflected". Don't talk about realism then.
Caporegime
@Nexus18 Please never mention Ghostwire again. It's just a painful reminder of 45 minutes you made me waste playing that tripe only to find out the reflections are rendered properly. God that game was terribad.
Yeah agree with you there. Even Doom 3 you could see yourself in the mirror Lol.Much better than in CP 2077 since you can see yourself in the reflection.
But i agree in your clip they don't look ray traced. Reflections dissapearing when viewed from certain angles is not the most annoying thing for me tbh. I understand it is a game and there are rendering limitations. It is more annoying when someone is talking about RT reflections realism but you can't see yourself in the reflection because the devs were too lazy to make a dummy body for you. Or when you destroy a whole room in Control but it still looks pristine in the reflections because " decals or whatever they are called can't be be RT reflected". Don't talk about realism then.
See above post on that scene of Matt in fact being SSR, not RT.Oooo shiny puddles
I voted "not yet", but could easily have voted no. I certainly don't care about RT any more than the miriad other steps in graphic fidelity in games that have happened over the years.
Perhaps it's because I started out playing games on the Speccy, but I'm not going to get all worked up about another evolutionary improvement if the game isn't fun to play. The pretty-pretty is all well and good, but if I'm bored why should I bother?
If it saves game designers and developers time, then great. Lets hope they do something worthwhile with it. Taking Nexus's example of F1 2022 - to my mind if they do well rendered mirrors (with vibrations - it's F1 after all), then that would enhance the game. On the other hand, beautifully rendered standing water would be pointless if there wasn't an associated decent model for aquaplaning.
Speaking of puddles, the puddles in CP2077 look lovely until you drive through them and they don't splash. Or is that just AMD not rendering things properly again?
In short, my preferred option for the poll would be: "Never will careforabout it, gameplay all day long!!!"
As for CP 2077 question, they have added more water physics:
Of course everyone will value gameplay above all else... It's a good thing RT doesn't have any impact on that.
Agree.
However, at the same time, look at a few artistic/cartoon like games where with the right use of RT, it can add to the game very well without making it "photo realistic" and improve the art style even further imo e.g. riftbreaker, the ascent, maneater, deathloop, sword and fairy 7. Could even say the same for things like minecraft, quake, serious sam, doom, nowhere near photo realistic but RT adds a lot of nice touches to them.
Try playing ark and then tell me that againMuch better than in CP 2077 since you can see yourself in the reflection.
But i agree in your clip they don't look ray traced. Reflections dissapearing when viewed from certain angles is not the most annoying thing for me tbh. I understand it is a game and there are rendering limitations. It is more annoying when someone is talking about RT reflections realism but you can't see yourself in the reflection because the devs were too lazy to make a dummy body for you. Or when you destroy a whole room in Control but it still looks pristine in the reflections because " decals or whatever they are called can't be RT reflected". Don't talk about realism then.
RT obviously isn't "perfect" but it looks better than SSR and has far less issues with it such as disappearing reflections. The games which have the best SSR is batman arkham knight, alien isolation and RDR 2, GTA 5 is pretty good too but still not a patch on RT reflections and has more issues than even the most basic RT reflections implementations.
That's SSR lol, video title is completely wrong whomever made the video doesn't know what they're talking about
Water in CP 2077 looks so ... PS4 ish.
I'll take the water from Horizon Forbidden West all day long and i can't wait for that game to come to PC. The water in ARK is great too.
Yep even though they "added water physics" to CP2077 it's still absolutely pathetic
I agree, I'm not looking for photo realism. I just enjoy the more cohesive scene, greater depth provided by RT, where as before I'd describe titles as having a cardboard cutout appearance. Indeed I think we will be running into problems with photo realism and the effect it may have on people left thinking they are shooting a real gun at a real person.
I'm sure it was Shadow of War that was getting great praise for it's graphics within the gaming forum here, which I got called out for as I described it as flat with cardboard cutouts. Playing a game such as CP2077 or DL2 I find I have a much better sense of depth.
Not sure how you can say the water in ark is good, it is bloody awful.... maybe if standing still and just looking at it from the ground then yeah maybe.... although even then, I'm not sure about that....Water in CP 2077 looks so ... PS4 ish.
I'll take the water from Horizon Forbidden West all day long and i can't wait for that game to come to PC. The water in ARK is great too.
HZD water is pretty looking overall, reminds me of assassins creed odyssey but if talking about reflections only, it's still not a patch on games with RT reflections, just look at how reflections disappear especially on the sides of the screen. This is what I and rroff were saying a while back, once you experience RT reflections, the issues with SSR become even more noticeable/jarring.
Exactly.
Deathloop shows this depth to the game world and objects in said world of very well too.
Only a handful of games have done RT right imo, most of them have really light RT or have slapped it on later in development.
The performance hit is also too much for me even when using DLSS, in DL2 or Chernobylite for example at 1440p with DLSS and a 3080 it's still going to dip below 60 in certain areas. Can't see how anyone uses RT at 4k or with lower class GPUs unless you don't mind low framerates.
Hoping the 4080 is a massive jump in RT performance.
The performance hit is also too much for me even when using DLSS, in DL2 or Chernobylite for example at 1440p with DLSS and a 3080 it's still going to dip below 60 in certain areas. Can't see how anyone uses RT at 4k or with lower class GPUs unless you don't mind low framerates.
Hoping the 4080 is a massive jump in RT performance.
Soldato
Wow, that water in HFW is superb, likewise, can't wait for this to be released for the PC.
Double dipped on HZD, so this will be an insta-buy for me.
Double dipped on HZD, so this will be an insta-buy for me.
So learnt that blizzard added ray traced shadows to burning crusade classic. A game I play that actually uses ray tracing. What's more interesting with it's use here is the implementation in the open world. Most other games in pc are still rubbish to me to get.
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