No-one wins, I think. Russia will have permanently damaged its economy and position in the world as well as weakening its military and crushing the reputation of the country and belief in its military strength. The whole thing is an embarrassing misadventure for a spent super-power with delusions of its former grandeur. It may even lead to the slow disintegration of the Russian Empire. Ukraine is probably going to lose territory, and will have suffered a massive loss of life, a traumatised generation, and a phenomenal reconstruction bill. The sharks will circle looking to snap up juicy parts of its economy in return for necessary rebuilding. Promises of entry into the EU are likely to prove empty for at least a decade.
But I don't think we're anywhere near an end to this yet. Most observers seem to think a war grind on for several years is most likely.
There's no way Ukraine will attack Russian territory. The grudge between the nations will be long held, but Ukraine hasn't got the military - even with all the Western backing - to invade Russia, even without the likely consequences of restarting the war if they did. Nor is there any realistic chance of a nuclear escalation without such an invasion.
Russia economy won't be damaged as you think! France save the day again Emmanuel Macron ‘betrays Ukraine’ as French imports of Russian gas soar. And EU sanctions do not prevent companies from opening an account at a designated banks, and companies can pay for Russian gas - as long as they do so in the currency agreed in their existing contracts.
15-Jun-2022 19:50:14 - In Call With Ukraine’s Zelenkskiy, UK PM Johnson Said UK Would Continue to Do All It Could To Support Ukraine With Defensive Aid
15-Jun-2022 20:21:30 - White House’s Kirby: Can’t Confirm Reports of Two Captured Americans in Ukraine
15-Jun-2022 20:22:05 - White House’s Kirby: If It’s True, U.S. Will Do Everything to Return Americans Home From Ukraine
15-Jun-2022 20:29:09 - White House’s Kirby: Still Optimistic Issues Will Be Worked Out, and Finland and Sweden Can Join NATO
15-Jun-2022 20:31:53 - White House’s Kirby: ‘I Don’t Think We’re There yet’ When Asked if Congress Needs to Pass Another Aid Package for Ukraine
This is not about if the war is justified, it is not and I'm not sure why I keep needing to repeat this.
I said I respected the pope for aknowledging that not all sides did their best to prevent the war.
This is what the pope said.
I replied with
Now after that a load of posters started to rage, they look at each others replies and seem to foam or something as they quote me but don't address the quoted text, instead ignoring what I wrote and comparing it to supporting rape, gassing jews and mass murder.
It's a mob mentality.
Now I am going to repeat again the invasion was not justified but to say all sides are innocent and did their best to avoid the war is disingenuous.
When I say all sides I am including the Ukrainian government and not the Ukrainian people.
You can dismiss that as Russian propaganda or you can give it a fair read, it does not justify the invasion if anyone is expecting that but it does support that all sides did not do their best to avert this war.
Some may say even if the West had bended to Russias requests that Russia could have still invaded and if that is how you feel then fair enough and it is a valid point as they could have, I do not share that opinion and feel more effort should have been made as the Ukrainian/Russian people are now paying the price.
This does not mean that the invasion is justified and I have to keep repeating that as people repeatedly rage and lose the means to comprehend what is actually wrote in my posts, they just keep trying to argue to get one over.
Just because you read the article it does not mean you agree with me in any way nor will you become comrade, you may get called it if you admit to reading it but I can't help that.
Now guys you can quote this post, rage a little, attempt to pick some arguments and claim I'm supporting rape and murder but I probably won't reply to you.
Thanks for the link I enjoyed read it NATO is run by the US and it's Allies puppets, and UN is corrupt For decades but because we have a different opinion on the war we are called pro-Russia trolls, by Twitter & Facebook users, killing children is not right but the US drone strikes killed at least 1,201 children in 2003 Iraq war but that's ok because the international law and UN charter didn't stop it, there was 1.2 million deaths (1,220,580), this estimate is the highest number published so far after the war that had not been previously admitted by the US government.
The Obama administration’s shockingly arrogant meddling in Ukraine’s internal political affairs in 2013 and 2014 to help demonstrators overthrow Ukraine’s elected pro‐Russia president was the single most brazen provocation. Western (especially U.S.) leaders continued to blow through red warning Russia was Ignored by UN: How NATO Expansion Led to the Current Ukraine Tragedy today. Could the Ukraine Crisis Have Been Avoided Yes because Washington’s attempt to make Ukraine a NATO political and military pawn. History will show us that Washington’s treatment of Russia in the decades following the demise of the Soviet Union was a policy blunder of epic proportions. It was entirely predictable that NATO expansion would ultimately lead to a tragic World end. We are now paying the price for the U.S. foreign policy establishment’s myopia and arrogance.
From an attic room in Germany, the West coordinates the supply of arms to Ukraine - but is it enough?
www.bbc.co.uk
Neither Rear Adm Heinz nor Brig King believe this war will be over quickly. They both say they're preparing to carry on this work for the long term. When I ask the brigadier for how long, he replies, "It's not going to be months, I think we'll be here for a number of years."
But there are some within Nato who question whether the West is really geared up for a war that could go on for years. It could certainly test its unity, resolve and limited stocks of weapons and ammunition.
In Stuttgart they know the stakes couldn't be higher. Rear Adm Heinz describes the mission of providing Ukraine with weapons and ammunition as "the most important work this command has done" since US EUCOM (European Command) was set up in 1952.
Unless things change dramatically IMO we need to be ramping those factories up now, looking at cost effective cooperative programs for producing new systems, etc.
15-Jun-2022 22:47:20 - Russian First Deputy PM: Rouble Is Overvalued, Industry Would Be More Comfortable if It Fell to Between 70 to 80 Against The USD — TASS News Agency
15-Jun-2022 22:52:24 - Russian First Deputy PM: Year-On-Year Russian Inflation In Dec 2022 Will Be Somewhere Around 15%
15-Jun-2022 22:54:37 - Russian First Deputy PM: ‘Now We Are Seeing Deflation’, Indicating Low Demand; This Is a Problem We Need to Solve Here and Now — TASS
15-Jun-2022 22:57:18 - Russian First Deputy PM: In Terms of Inflation in 2024, It Is Quite Possible to Hit The 4% Target — TASS
Thats the likely future of Ukraine, i dont think the russkies will give back the lands they invaded and occupy. Much like Cyprus and the Korean peninsula.
Turkey and Greece were both in NATO at the time and as a result of their meddling they partitioned Cyprus (not a NATO member) between them to this day. Both countries can block any attempt by the other half of Cyprus to join NATO so there's a weird 3 way between Greece/Turkey/UK to maintain status quo.
Frankly, what is your point Amenesia? That Russia could have been pacified? Is that it? That is your entire point that you have wasted countless hours trying trying to prove? If not, then get to the point.
Turkey and Greece were both in NATO at the time and as a result of their meddling they partitioned Cyprus (not a NATO member) between them to this day. Both countries can block any attempt by the other half of Cyprus to join NATO so there's a weird 3 way between Greece/Turkey/UK to maintain status quo.
Thanks for the link I enjoyed read it NATO is run by the US and it's Allies puppets, and UN is corrupt For decades but because we have a different opinion on the war we are called pro-Russia trolls, by Twitter & Facebook users, killing children is not right but the US drone strikes killed at least 1,201 children in 2003 Iraq war but that's ok because the international law and UN charter didn't stop it, there was 1.2 million deaths (1,220,580), this estimate is the highest number published so far after the war that had not been previously admitted by the US government.
The Obama administration’s shockingly arrogant meddling in Ukraine’s internal political affairs in 2013 and 2014 to help demonstrators overthrow Ukraine’s elected pro‐Russia president was the single most brazen provocation. Western (especially U.S.) leaders continued to blow through red warning Russia was Ignored by UN: How NATO Expansion Led to the Current Ukraine Tragedy today. Could the Ukraine Crisis Have Been Avoided Yes because Washington’s attempt to make Ukraine a NATO political and military pawn. History will show us that Washington’s treatment of Russia in the decades following the demise of the Soviet Union was a policy blunder of epic proportions. It was entirely predictable that NATO expansion would ultimately lead to a tragic World end. We are now paying the price for the U.S. foreign policy establishment’s myopia and arrogance.
We quite literally have mini dictatorships thanks to Russia. Ukraine was pretty much one of those for a while. Maybe you missed some of Ukraine's history in the 90s? They literally didn't want to be involved with Russia.
Maybe you guys can form a club? Something with a curved blade for "sweeping change" or something
Seems the Russian Internet Research Agency is back. Over using negative adjectives nearly every line and harping the party's line back to the 1960s.
US has a policy to make US number 1. China has a policy to make China number 1. Russia is just jealous. Nobody wants a flat playing field.
I agree it seems to be more dictatorship are grouping together as countries attempt to make a power pyramid of puppet governments to be able to level up.
Seems the Russian Internet Research Agency is back. Over using negative adjectives nearly every line and harping the party's line back to the 1960s.
US has a policy to make US number 1. China has a policy to make China number 1. Russia is just jealous. Nobody wants a flat playing field.
I agree it seems to be more dictatorship are grouping together as countries attempt to make a power pyramid of puppet governments to be able to level up.
Thanks for the link I enjoyed read it NATO is run by the US and it's Allies puppets, and UN is corrupt For decades but because we have a different opinion on the war we are called pro-Russia trolls, by Twitter & Facebook users, killing children is not right but the US drone strikes killed at least 1,201 children in 2003 Iraq war but that's ok because the international law and UN charter didn't stop it, there was 1.2 million deaths (1,220,580), this estimate is the highest number published so far after the war that had not been previously admitted by the US government.
The Obama administration’s shockingly arrogant meddling in Ukraine’s internal political affairs in 2013 and 2014 to help demonstrators overthrow Ukraine’s elected pro‐Russia president was the single most brazen provocation. Western (especially U.S.) leaders continued to blow through red warning Russia was Ignored by UN: How NATO Expansion Led to the Current Ukraine Tragedy today. Could the Ukraine Crisis Have Been Avoided Yes because Washington’s attempt to make Ukraine a NATO political and military pawn. History will show us that Washington’s treatment of Russia in the decades following the demise of the Soviet Union was a policy blunder of epic proportions. It was entirely predictable that NATO expansion would ultimately lead to a tragic World end. We are now paying the price for the U.S. foreign policy establishment’s myopia and arrogance.
Besides obviously agreeable things, like US awfulness in nearly everything, you omit and twist a lot.
What do you think is the main reason Sweden & Finland want to join NATO?
I'd say ex-Soviet/Warsaw and other states want to join NATO mainly because most of them have been subject to decades or even centuries of Russian violence, oppression and harassment. Russia has literally committed genocide against Ukraine, weaponising famine to kill almost as many people died in the holocaust. Most of the Baltics, Poland, Hungary and other ex-Warsaw Pact states have been subject to overt Russian military aggression both recently and in the not-too-distant past. Russia had decades of disproportionate influence over e.g. Poland that they could've done anything with, like very positive things, but their treatment resulted in Poland being the most hawkish European NATO member against Russia; and simultaneously Poland threw Biden under the bus regarding sending planes back when the Russians were in the north too and Poland intentionally made Biden look even worse and in such a critical time (he deserved all the criticism I saw, BTW). The world's not so simple and one-sided as you spew.
16-Jun-2022 05:19:54 - Kremlin Spokesman: Russia, U.S. Must Discuss Extension of Nuclear Arms Reduction Treaty — RIA
16-Jun-2022 05:53:37 - Russian Negotiator: Russia Tried to Persuade Turkey to Resolve Issues In Syria Peacefully — TASS
16-Jun-2022 06:00:00 - Russia’s SPB Exchange: Will Begin Trading in 12 Hong Kong-Listed Securities on June 20
16-Jun-2022 07:02:04 - Kremlin Spokesman: Russia and U.S. Are Now at ‘a Very, Very Hot Point of Confrontation’ — RIA
16-Jun-2022 06:35:04 - UK Military Intelligence: All Main Bridges Over Siverskyy Donets River, Linking Sieverodonetsk and Ukrainian-Held Territory, Have Likely Been Destroyed
16-Jun-2022 06:38:10 - UK Military Intelligence: Russia’s Combat Force in Donbas Is Highly Likely Operating in Increasingly Ad Hoc and Severely Undermanned Groupings
16-Jun-2022 06:40:48 - UK Military Intelligence: With Bridges Destroyed, Russia Will Now Likely Need to Conduct a Contested River Crossing
16-Jun-2022 06:43:06 - UK Military Intelligence: With Bridges Destroyed, Russia Will Need to Advance on Currently Stalled Flanks https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1537306662754734080
16-Jun-2022 06:18:07 - Italy’s Repubblica Paper Reports That Draghi, Macron and Scholz Have Taken The Night-Train En Route to Kyiv
16-Jun-2022 06:25:10 - French Ambassador to Kyiv, Etienne de Poncins, Publishes Image on His Twitter Account of La Repubblica Photo of Macron, Scholz, Draghi in Train En Route to Arrive in Kyiv on Thursday
16-Jun-2022 06:45:31 - French Presidential Office Confirms Macron En Route to Arrive in Kyiv This Thursday
16-Jun-2022 07:22:48 - France’s Macron, Germany’s Scholz and Italy’s Draghi Will Discuss Ukraine’s EU Candidacy With Ukrainian President Zelensky in Kyiv- Pool
16-Jun-2022 07:24:13 - Macron, Scholz and Draghi Know Ukraine Wants a Stronng Symbol Ahead of the June 23-24 EU Summit- Pool
16-Jun-2022 07:24:40 - They Need to Find Balance Between Ukraine Natural Aspirations for EU and All Other Countries Which Already Have Candidacy Status- Pool
16-Jun-2022 07:25:37 - Macron, Scholz and Draghi Want to Ensure the That EU Is Not Destabilised nor Fractured
16-Jun-2022 07:34:22 - Macron, Scholz and Draghi Have Arrived in Kyiv
16-Jun-2022 07:38:32 - French Foreign Minister Colonna Also Tweets That Macron Has Arrived in Kyiv
16-Jun-2022 07:40:05 - Macron Tells Reporters in Kyiv That He Will Go On to Meet Ukraine President Today, Says It Is an “Important Moment”
16-Jun-2022 07:40:41 - Macron Tells Reporters in Kyiv That He Will Pass on a Message of “European Solidarity” to Ukraine President
16-Jun-2022 08:22:04 - French Diplomatic Source: We Want a Victory That Establishes the Territorial Integrity of Ukraine Taken by Russia, Including Crimea
16-Jun-2022 08:24:15 - French Diplomatic Source: Up to Ukrainian President Zelenskiy to Define What Military Victory Could Be
16-Jun-2022 07:15:12 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: External Conditions for Russia Have Changed Substantially
16-Jun-2022 07:15:34 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: We Need to Rethink Russian Exports
16-Jun-2022 07:15:58 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Substantial Part of Industry Should Work for the Internal Market
16-Jun-2022 07:29:15 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Everyone Fears That Losing Access To Technologies Will Lead to Degradation
16-Jun-2022 07:30:11 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: We Need to Look at Private Initiative To Avoid Sliding Into Soviet Situation
16-Jun-2022 08:02:50 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: We Need to Work to Restore Trust Of Private Investors in Equity Market
16-Jun-2022 08:05:45 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Spending From National Wealth Fund Now Returns Previous Savings Into Economy
16-Jun-2022 08:05:57 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Spending From National Wealth Fund Is Not Equal to Printing Money
16-Jun-2022 08:10:49 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: I Believe Most Of Capital Controls Should Be Scrapped
16-Jun-2022 08:12:48 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: There Will Be No Ban on Dollars, Foreign Currency Accounts in Russia
16-Jun-2022 08:54:31 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Strategy of Reducing Foreign Currency Role in Russia Remains in Place
16-Jun-2022 08:57:09 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Too Early To Speak About July Rate Decision
16-Jun-2022 08:58:12 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Budget Rule Was Important for Economic Stability, We Are Now in Talks About a New Rule but It Won’t Be Same As Old One
16-Jun-2022 08:58:23 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: We Don’t Have Technical Ability to Buy Dollars and Euros Now
16-Jun-2022 08:58:56 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Cryptocurrency Should Not Be Used As Means of Payments in Russia
16-Jun-2022 08:58:56 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Inflation Slowdown Is Wider Than Expected
16-Jun-2022 08:58:56 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Inflation May Be Close to Around 14% This Year
16-Jun-2022 08:58:57 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Will Take Inflation Slowdown Into Consideration When Making Monetary Policy Decisions
16-Jun-2022 08:58:57 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Economic Contraction This Year Will Be Smaller Than We Thought in April
16-Jun-2022 08:58:57 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: We Are in Talks With Many Countries on Settlements in National Currencies
16-Jun-2022 08:59:25 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: We Don’t Believe the Rouble Should Be Weaker
16-Jun-2022 08:59:35 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Rouble Should Remain Floating
16-Jun-2022 09:01:16 - Russia’s C.Bank Governor Nabiullina: Impossible to Say That All Currency Restrictions Will Be Lifted if Sanctions Remain in Place
16-Jun-2022 10:22:09 - Russian Official: Further Issues With Turbines for Nord Stream 1 May Lead to Its Suspension — RIA
16-Jun-2022 10:20:13 - French President Macron, Speaking to Reporters in Irpin, Says Massacres and War Crimes Have Been Committed Here
16-Jun-2022 10:23:16 - French President Macron, Speaking in Irpin: Ukraine Must Be Able to Resist and Win the Day
16-Jun-2022 10:23:43 - French President Macron: I Have Been Consistent in My Position Regarding Ukraine, France Has Always Stood Alongside Ukraine
16-Jun-2022 11:15:24 - Russian Foreign Ministry: Russia Sanctions 121 Australians
16-Jun-2022 11:19:28 - UK Sanctions Russian Linked To Forced Transfers and Adoptions
16-Jun-2022 11:19:57 - UK Government: Russian Children’s Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova Sanctioned for the Forced Transfer and Adoption of Ukrainian Children
16-Jun-2022 11:20:08 - UK Government: Patriarch Kirill, Head of Russian Orthodox Church Also Sanctioned for His Prominent Support of Russian Military Aggression in Ukraine
16-Jun-2022 11:20:22 - UK Government: Sanctions Also Target Putin’s Allies, Military Commanders And Russian and Myanmar Arms Dealers
Besides obviously agreeable things, like US awfulness in nearly everything, you omit and twist a lot.
What do you think is the main reason Sweden & Finland want to join NATO?
I'd say ex-Soviet/Warsaw and other states want to join NATO mainly because most of them have been subject to decades or even centuries of Russian violence, oppression and harassment. Russia has literally committed genocide against Ukraine, weaponising famine to kill almost as many people died in the holocaust. Most of the Baltics, Poland, Hungary and other ex-Warsaw Pact states have been subject to overt Russian military aggression both recently and in the not-too-distant past. Russia had decades of disproportionate influence over e.g. Poland that they could've done anything with, like very positive things, but their treatment resulted in Poland being the most hawkish European NATO member against Russia; and simultaneously Poland threw Biden under the bus regarding sending planes back when the Russians were in the north too and Poland intentionally made Biden look even worse and in such a critical time (he deserved all the criticism I saw, BTW). The world's not so simple and one-sided as you spew.
Poland is certainly hawkish and distrusts all the states on its borders, Russia and Germany equally. Poland has been overrun, occupied and divided so many times in its history that it views all overtures with suspicion and who can blame them. The EU is equally in its sights.
16-Jun-2022 11:38:48 - Eni: Thursday’s Gas Request to Gazprom Was Approx. 44% Higher Than Day Before — Spokesperson
16-Jun-2022 11:40:17 - Eni: Gazprom Announced That Only 65% of Requested Volumes Will Be Delivered — Spokesperson
16-Jun-2022 11:41:13 - Eni: Gazprom Explained That Under-Delivery Is Due to Problems at Portovaya Plant, Which Feeds Nord Stream Gas Pipeline — Spokesperson
16-Jun-2022 11:42:59 - Eni’s Thursday Increased Request Is Due to Need to Recover Volumes Not Received on Wednesday, and To Normal Commercial Dynamics — Spokesperson
16-Jun-2022 11:44:35 - Eni: Gazprom Delivered Volumes on Thursday Will Be Slightly Higher Than Wednesday, and Will Amount to Around 32 mln Cubic Meters/Day — Spokesperson
16-Jun-2022 11:42:08 - German Chancellor Scholz, in Ukraine, Tweets This War Must End
16-Jun-2022 11:42:41 - German Chancellor Scholz, in Ukraine, Tweets Irpin, Bucha Are Symbols of Unimaginable Cruelty of Russian War of Senseless Violence
16-Jun-2022 11:50:00 - Russian Finance Ministry: Plans to Reintroduce Amended Fiscal Rule Based on Price and Size Of Russian Exports in 2025
16-Jun-2022 11:50:00 - Russia Will Consider Adding Chinese Yuan to National Wealth Fund in Future — Siluanov
16-Jun-2022 11:50:00 - Russian Finance Ministry: Sees 2022 Budget Deficit at No More Than 2% of GDP — Siluanov
16-Jun-2022 11:50:00 - Russian Finance Minister: Russia Will Pay Roubles on Its Eurobonds That Can Be Later Converted Into Foreign Currency at A Rate of Payout Date
16-Jun-2022 11:50:00 - Russian Finance Minister: Russia Will Engage Banks That Are Not Under Sanctions to Convert Rouble To FX in Debt Payments
16-Jun-2022 11:59:58 - UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss: We Are Very Concerned About Reports Regarding Russian Opposition Leader Navalny and Wholeheartedly Support Him
16-Jun-2022 12:04:25 - German Bundesnetzagentur Energy Regulator: Gas Storage Can Still Be Filled, Though At a Slightly Slowing Pace
16-Jun-2022 12:04:49 - German Bundesnetzagentur Energy Regulator: Reason for Slight Decline Is Probably Increasing Gas Prices
16-Jun-2022 12:05:44 - German Bundesnetzagentur Energy Regulator: Rehden Storage Facility Currently Storing Gas As Quickly As Possible
16-Jun-2022 12:13:34 - Russia’s Novatek Plans to Implement Its Arctic LNG-2 Project but With Delay Due to Supply Bottlenecks — IFAX
16-Jun-2022 12:45:04 - Russia’s Abramchenko: Russia Will Delay Implementation of Some Climate-Related Projects Due To Restrictions on Imports of Foreign Equipment
16-Jun-2022 12:45:04 - Russia’s Abramchenko: Russia Does Not Plan To Withdraw From Paris Climate Accord
16-Jun-2022 12:45:04 - Russia’s Abramchenko: Russia’s Grain Harvest Seen at Around 130 mln T In 2023, on Par With Current Year
16-Jun-2022 12:45:04 - Russia’s Abramchenko: Russia Secured New Seeds Suppliers From 11 Countries Including Serbia
16-Jun-2022 12:45:04 - Russia’s Abramchenko: Russia Does Not Transport Grain From Ukraine
16-Jun-2022 12:45:04 - Russia’s Abramchenko: Government Does Not Plan to Change Grain Export Tax Formula
16-Jun-2022 12:34:54 - Ukrainian Deputy Defence Minister: Russia’s Strategic Goal Remains the Complete Destruction of Ukrainian Statehood and Nation
16-Jun-2022 12:49:54 - Governor of Ukraine’s Luhansk Region: At Least Three Killed and Seven Wounded in Airstrike on Building Sheltering Civilians in Eastern City of Lysychansk
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Emmanuel Macron ‘betrays Ukraine’ as French imports of Russian gas soar. And EU sanctions do not prevent companies from opening an account at a designated banks, and companies can pay for Russian gas - as long as they do so in the currency agreed in their existing contracts.
www.telegraph.co.uk
www.bbc.co.uk
