Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Nov 2005
- Posts
- 12,454
It feels like this whole thing has taken a horrid turn for the worse. A couple of months ago when this all started, Ukraine was doing really well, Russia were taking a beating and basically being humiliated.
However, it just feels like Russia will continue to throw meat into the grinder for however long it takes, a bit like a poor RTS player who's turned on cheats and is just spawning endless tier 1 units. Where most militaries would have pulled back, or done something else to save face - it feels like Russia just doesn't care about the human cost, it wants Ukraine for itself and it won't stop until it gets it, whatever the cost.
I just can't see it ending anytime soon, and exactly what the west does if this goes on for years, Ukraine eventually falls? do we get involved to stop it? or do we just turn Russia into North Korea?
Where do people see it going?
The Mariupol theatre bombing might have been as large or larger but since the Russians had the city fully besieged and have since captured it, they get to drive the narrative by destroying the bodies etc.
Russia decided to target a shopping centre in Kremenchuk
It feels like this whole thing has taken a horrid turn for the worse. A couple of months ago when this all started, Ukraine was doing really well, Russia were taking a beating and basically being humiliated.
I just can't see it ending anytime soon, and exactly what the west does if this goes on for years, Ukraine eventually falls? do we get involved to stop it? or do we just turn Russia into North Korea?
Unfortunately, I think you could well be right...I see it as a certainty that Russia will prevail, "Ukraine Fatigue" is already setting in in the West and once the European populations realise just how dependent on Russia they are and start to be seriously inconvenienced their allegiance will crumble. Like the US in Vietnam, their resolve will falter due to voters shying away from getting even more involved, especially if there's talk of conscription and EU and US boots on the ground.
NATO will be their usual fence sitting self, and unless the US sees a pressing demand to get properly involved herself, which with a senile President dithering about, and a soft bellied populace, is unlikely to happen, it will all be meetings and bluster. Ridicule Russia and her military's resolve at your peril. The Bear isn't backing down any time soon, and will probably unsheath her claws soon.
Russia is a totally none PC, ruthless and determined old school country, used to general hardship and her population will easily turn more and more against the supporters of Ukraine.
What started as an amusing potential rout of The Bear to many here is now being shown as the youthful, wargame playing, wishful thinking it is. Russia ain't gonna back down, she'll dig in deeper and use slow attrition to weaken the West's resolve and haemorrhage our military resources and money.
And if you think Ukraine will prostrate themselves in gratitude to the West for what they've already done, once their true long term situation becomes apparent, you are naively wrong. They'll blame us for not doing enough and join the Russians in decrying us. We are walking into a bad situation and weakening our military resources for our own use daily.
All in my humble opinion...
However, it just feels like Russia will continue to throw meat into the grinder for however long it takes, a bit like a poor RTS player who's turned on cheats and is just spawning endless tier 1 units. Where most militaries would have pulled back, or done something else to save face - it feels like Russia just doesn't care about the human cost, it wants Ukraine for itself and it won't stop until it gets it, whatever the cost.
I just can't see it ending anytime soon, and exactly what the west does if this goes on for years, Ukraine eventually falls? do we get involved to stop it? or do we just turn Russia into North Korea?
Where do people see it going?
I see it as a certainty that Russia will prevail, "Ukraine Fatigue" is already setting in in the West and once the European populations realise just how dependent on Russia they are and start to be seriously inconvenienced their allegiance will crumble. Like the US in Vietnam, their resolve will falter due to voters shying away from getting even more involved, especially if there's talk of conscription and EU and US boots on the ground.
NATO will be their usual fence sitting self, and unless the US sees a pressing demand to get properly involved herself, which with a senile President dithering about, and a soft bellied populace, is unlikely to happen, it will all be meetings and bluster. Ridicule Russia and her military's resolve at your peril. The Bear isn't backing down any time soon, and will probably unsheath her claws soon.
Russia is a totally none PC, ruthless and determined old school country, used to general hardship and her population will easily turn more and more against the supporters of Ukraine.
What started as an amusing potential rout of The Bear to many here is now being shown as the youthful, wargame playing, wishful thinking it is. Russia ain't gonna back down, she'll dig in deeper and use slow attrition to weaken the West's resolve and haemorrhage our military resources and money.
And if you think Ukraine will prostrate themselves in gratitude to the West for what they've already done, once their true long term situation becomes apparent, you are naively wrong. They'll blame us for not doing enough and join the Russians in decrying us. We are walking into a bad situation and weakening our military resources for our own use daily.
All in my humble opinion...
Where do people see it going?
Every time Russia bombs a civilian area it puts Western leaders who might want to take more fascist enabling stance into a bind because they'd essentially be defending it. Especially awkward when it puts them on the spot during a big transnational political meeting discussing this exact issue of continuing to support Ukraine.Unfortunately, I think you could well be right...
Ukraine was actually not doing well early in the war, it's only been through the epic embarrassment of the Russian forces attempt on Kyiv and more generally the stupid pushing ahead of supply lines ability to resupply that makes it look like they did (they certainly exploited those failures well though). The South between Kherson and Berdyansk fell due to traitors and a lack of manpower/equipment, but the east has generally been mildly positive (excepting Luhansk but that's understandable considering the geography) for Ukraine in terms of holding ground in Donetsk and Kharkiv especially so with how close it is to Russia.
It was always an uneven fight in Russia's favour that only exterior influence could really mitigate. I hope we continue to escalate equipment and training to ensure Russia either capitulates or remains in a quagmire they can't afford.
It is all a bit silly though isn't it. They can't make the payments despite having the cash and being willing to pay...
Russia lost the day they went over the border. Military wise they may well win, or more like it will all grind to a halt with 2 sides facing eschother.I see it as a certainty that Russia will prevail, "Ukraine Fatigue" is already setting in in the West and once the European populations realise just how dependent on Russia they are and start to be seriously inconvenienced their allegiance will crumble. Like the US in Vietnam, their resolve will falter due to voters shying away from getting even more involved, especially if there's talk of conscription and EU and US boots on the ground.
NATO will be their usual fence sitting self, and unless the US sees a pressing demand to get properly involved herself, which with a senile President dithering about, and a soft bellied populace, is unlikely to happen, it will all be meetings and bluster. Ridicule Russia and her military's resolve at your peril. The Bear isn't backing down any time soon, and will probably unsheath her claws soon.
Russia is a totally none PC, ruthless and determined old school country, used to general hardship and her population will easily turn more and more against the supporters of Ukraine.
What started as an amusing potential rout of The Bear to many here is now being shown as the youthful, wargame playing, wishful thinking it is. Russia ain't gonna back down, she'll dig in deeper and use slow attrition to weaken the West's resolve and haemorrhage our military resources and money.
And if you think Ukraine will prostrate themselves in gratitude to the West for what they've already done, once their true long term situation becomes apparent, you are naively wrong. They'll blame us for not doing enough and join the Russians in decrying us. We are walking into a bad situation and weakening our military resources for our own use daily.
All in my humble opinion...
It's all made up money anyway, no matter what happens they'll always never have enough for home but have a bottomless pit when it comes to everywhere else in the worldwith literally billions going to Ukraine.