Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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I don't know if this has been posted but Ukraine has mentioned how much equipment they have lost:

He said this in an interview with National Defense magazine.

According to Karpenko, Ukraine has already lost 400 tanks, 1,300 armored vehicles and 700 artillery units. The commander added that the loss of equipment reached "30-40, sometimes up to 50% due to active combat."

Karpenko also explained that in order to fully cover the entire front line, where active fighting is taking place, Ukraine needs to fully equip 40 brigades. These 40 brigades need a total of 4,000 infantry fighting vehicles, 1,200 tanks and almost 2,200 artillery systems.

Ukraine had close to 900~1000 tanks,1500 armoured vehicles and about 1500 artillery systems IIRC,at the start of the war. Also the other issue is going to be the spare parts for the equipment they already have,and its going to take time to train them to use our equipment(and service it). We really should have at least started the training for our equipment from the first weeks of the war,and built up spare parts stockpiles so it would be a seamless transfer. As usual our dithering has lost Ukraine valuable time.

This report from RUSI(Royal United Services Institute) is also sobering:

The big issue it seems are industrial base WRT to ammunition and actual production seems to wired towards profit in the west IMHO. Compared that to 50 to 60 years ago where our base could easily produce large quantities of ammunition quickly especially as there were many state owned enterprises(which were either shut down or privatised). China is going to be a PITA.

The winner in a prolonged war between two near-peer powers is still based on which side has the strongest industrial base. A country must either have the manufacturing capacity to build massive quantities of ammunition or have other manufacturing industries that can be rapidly converted to ammunition production. Unfortunately, the West no longer seems to have either.
Presently, the US is decreasing its artillery ammunition stockpiles. In 2020, artillery ammunition purchases decreased by 36% to $425 million. In 2022, the plan is to reduce expenditure on 155mm artillery rounds to $174 million. This is equivalent to 75,357 M795 basic ‘dumb’ rounds for regular artillery, 1,400 XM1113 rounds for the M777, and 1,046 XM1113 rounds for Extended Round Artillery Cannons. Finally, there are $75 million dedicated for Excalibur precision-guided munitions that costs $176K per round, thus totaling 426 rounds. In short, US annual artillery production would at best only last for 10 days to two weeks of combat in Ukraine. If the initial estimate of Russian shells fired is over by 50%, it would only extend the artillery supplied for three weeks.
The US is not the only country facing this challenge. In a recent war game involving US, UK and French forces, UK forces exhausted national stockpiles of critical ammunition after eight days.
Unfortunately, this is not only the case with artillery. Anti-tank Javelins and air-defence Stingers are in the same boat. The US shipped 7,000 Javelin missiles to Ukraine – roughly one-third of its stockpile – with more shipments to come. Lockheed Martin produces about 2,100 missiles a year, though this number might ramp up to 4,000 in a few years. Ukraine claims to use 500 Javelin missiles every day.
The expenditure of cruise missiles and theatre ballistic missiles is just as massive. The Russians have fired between 1,100 and 2,100 missiles. The US currently purchases 110 PRISM, 500 JASSM and 60 Tomahawk cruise missiles annually, meaning that in three months of combat, Russia has burned through four times the US annual missile production. The Russian rate of production can only be estimated. Russia started missile production in 2015 in limited initial runs, and even in 2016 the production runs were estimated at 47 missiles. This means that it had only five to six years of full-scale production.
If competition between autocracies and democracies has really entered a military phase, then the arsenal of democracy must radically improve its approach to the production of materiel in wartime

The initial stockpile in February 2022 is unknown, but considering expenditures and the requirement to hold substantial stockpiles back in case of war with NATO, it is unlikely that the Russians are worried. In fact, they seem to have enough to expend operational-level cruise missiles on tactical targets. The assumption that there are 4,000 cruise and ballistic missiles in the Russian inventory is not unreasonable. This production will probably increase despite Western sanctions. In April, ODK Saturn, which makes Kalibr missile motors, announced an additional 500 job openings. This suggests that even in this field, the West only has parity with Russia.

Flawed Assumptions​

The first key assumption about future of combat is that precision-guided weapons will reduce overall ammunition consumption by requiring only one round to destroy the target. The war in Ukraine is challenging this assumption. Many ‘dumb’ indirect fire systems are achieving a great deal of precision without precision guidance, and still the overall ammunition consumption is massive. Part of the issue is that the digitisation of global maps, combined with a massive proliferation of drones, allows geolocation and targeting with increased precision, with video evidence demonstrating the ability to score first strike hits by indirect fires.
The second crucial assumption is that industry can be turned on and off at will. This mode of thinking was imported from the business sector and has spread through US government culture. In the civilian sector, customers can increase or decrease their orders. The producer may be hurt by a drop in orders but rarely is that drop catastrophic because usually there are multiple consumers and losses can be spread among consumers. Unfortunately, this does not work for military purchases. There is only one customer in the US for artillery shells – the military. Once the orders drop off, the manufacturer must close production lines to cut costs to stay in business. Small businesses may close entirely. Generating new capacity is very challenging, especially as there is so little manufacturing capacity left to draw skilled workers from. This is especially challenging because many older armament production systems are labour intensive to the point where they are practically built by hand, and it takes a long time to train a new workforce. The supply chain issues are also problematic because subcomponents may be produced by a subcontractor who either goes out of business, with loss of orders or retools for other customers or who relies on parts from overseas, possibly from a hostile country.
China’s near monopoly on rare earth materials is an obvious challenge here. Stinger missile production will not be completed until 2026, in part due to component shortages. US reports on the defence industrial base have made it clear that ramping up production in war-time may be challenging, if not impossible, due to supply chain issues and a lack of trained personnel due to the degradation of the US manufacturing base.
Finally, there is an assumption about overall ammunition consumption rates. The US government has always lowballed this number. From the Vietnam era to today, small arms plants have shrunk from five to just one. This was glaring at the height of the Iraq war, when US started to run low on small arms ammunition, causing the US government to buy British and Israeli ammunition during the initial stage of the war. At one point, the US had to dip into Vietnam and even Second World War-era ammo stockpiles of .50 calibre ammunition to feed the war effort. This was largely the result of incorrect assumptions about how effective US troops would be. Indeed, the Government Accountability Office estimated that it took 250,000 rounds to kill one insurgent. Luckily for the US, its gun culture ensured that small arms ammunition industry has a civilian component in the US. This is not the case with other types of ammunition, as shown earlier with Javelin and Stinger missiles. Without access to government methodology, it is impossible to understand why US government estimates were off, but there is a risk that the same errors were made with other types of munitions.
 
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I don't know if this has been posted but Ukraine has mentioned how much equipment they have lost:



Ukraine had close to 900~1000 tanks,1500 armoured vehicles and about 1500 artillery systems IIRC,at the start of the war. Also the other issue is going to be the spare parts for the equipment they already have,and its going to take time to train them to use our equipment(and service it). We really should have at least started the training for our equipment from the first weeks of the war,and built up spare parts stockpiles so it would be a seamless transfer. As usual our dithering has lost Ukraine valuable time.

This report from RUSI(Royal United Services Institute) is also sobering:

The big issue it seems are industrial base WRT to ammunition and actual production seems to wired towards profit in the west IMHO. Compared that to 50 to 60 years ago where our base could easily produce large quantities of ammunition quickly especially as there were many state owned enterprises(which were either shut down or privatised). China is going to be a PITA.
The neolibs/neocons have really ****** the West over haven't they?
 
I wonder what will happen if the war is still ongoing when the weather gets cold? With insufficient gas supply to cook or heat, what do you think will happen then?
 
Russian still creeping north from Popasna. The whole salient going to go and the new real defense line at Bakhmut and Sloviansk?
Main road between Bakhmut and Lysychansk cut.
 
The longer this war goes on it increases our chances of attacking.

We can't afford for Ukraine to lose, or we'll be at the mercy of Putin and the sanctions he can put on us.
 
I wonder what will happen if the war is still ongoing when the weather gets cold? With insufficient gas supply to cook or heat, what do you think will happen then?
Use a microwave and air-fryer, both are far more energy efficient and only needs gas if it's part of the energy composition.
 
The neolibs/neocons have really ****** the West over haven't they?
Yes and you can tell how I have moaned about this for years. On top of this they have stradled our economies with huge amounts of debt to enrich themselves and their buddies since 2008/2009. Then made us overly dependent on external manufacturing and resource extraction in the name of higher margins.
 
So what excuses will Russia come up with for bombing a packed shopping centre in the middle of a city, killing and injuring God knows how many innocent civilians just trying to get by?
 
I do wonder just how long public support will go on for. It's fine for people like the PM to say it's a price worth paying, but he's not actually the one who will be paying it. As recession bites here, with job losses, huge energy bills, food prices, winter arriving then people might start not being so happy with literally billions going to Ukraine.

I mean this is our WW2 moment. Do we stand up against Russo Nazis and genocide, or tip our hats to them like the Dutch and Swiss and ask if we can launder their blood stained money?
 
...or we'll be at the mercy of Putin and the sanctions he can put on us.

What sanctions? The only things Russia has that the West wants are (1) obtainable from other sources, and (2) at least as important to Russia as to the West. Especially so in the aftermath of all this.
 
They will run out of meat for the grinder soon if they don't switch to some form of mass mobilisation - though the likes of [formerly] Wagner are still managing to drag up new mercenaries by waving tempting salaries around (which an increasing number won't get to collect by the looks of things any way). If they switch gears mobilisation wise they can sustain this for a long time unless the civilian population kicks back which doesn't seem likely in any significant way.

They've been pulling a lot of tanks and stuff out of main reserves in the east recently and moving them towards the western military district so I suspect they'll be able to sustain the hardware side of things awhile yet - but you can't just drag someone off the street and stick them in a tank or anti-air vehicle, etc. (Looks likely they will have another crack at Kyiv but with heavier units this time at some point in the later half of this year or early next).

Sadly the US seems to be doing just enough to keep things in equilibrium so I can see this dragging on for quite awhile yet.

If Ukraine eventually falls I don't see Russia stopping there if they can just keep trickling meat into the grinder - Moldova and testing how far they can push it with the Baltic states likely next.



My take is slightly different on it but I've basically been saying this from the start :(

Russia's meat grinder only has so much meat left to grind. I forget exactly how much equipment they've lost but it's been between 30-50% of their total military equipment and that's in 4 months of war and making slow progress in the east. Their problem is that their military production is massively hampered by sanctions. There's footage of Russians using WW2 riffles and other outdated equipment.

Ukraine has far better quality artillery than Russia currently that is just coming into play. Artillery that has far longer range impacts that is far more accurate than Russian's have available. In theory this should mean Ukraine can pick off Russian targets that can't fire back. I saw an interview of a Ukrainian general and he was very confident once these weapons were fully deployed that Russia could be pressed back outside of Ukrainian borders

The recent shopping centre massacre does seem to be a low blowed response to the success of the damage long ranged missiles have inflicted on Russian targets.
 
The producer of the Bayraktar TB2 UAVs will donate 3 drones to the Ukrainian Armed Forces for free after a successful crowdfunding campaign.
 
27-Jun-2022 19:58:35 - Governor of Ukraine’s Luhansk Region: At Least 8 Killed, 21 Wounded by Russian Rocket Attack on Lysychansk on Monday

27-Jun-2022 20:22:46 - France Condemns Russian Missile Strike on Ukrainian Shopping Centre, Says Russia Must Answer for These Acts — Foreign Ministry
27-Jun-2022 21:43:05 - G7 Leaders Condemn “Abominable Attack” on Shopping Mall in Kremenchuk, Ukraine
27-Jun-2022 21:43:31 - G7 Leaders President Putin and People Responsible Will Be Held to Account
 
The producer of the Bayraktar TB2 UAVs will donate 3 drones to the Ukrainian Armed Forces for free after a successful crowdfunding campaign.

People discussing that they are pretty ineffective now in the war, at the start Russia had little air defence up but they soon worked out how to deal with them.

Don't really see any combat videos of them now, only used for video footage.
 
It feels like this whole thing has taken a horrid turn for the worse. A couple of months ago when this all started, Ukraine was doing really well, Russia were taking a beating and basically being humiliated.
No they were not, not even close. You just fell for the bs that was being spewed.

All sorts of rubbish claims were being made, so many were believing there was a Ukrainian pilot that could take out a whole Russian fleet on his own.
That Russia was out of artillery yet so many months later it's still landing in Ukraine.
That Russia was losing in excess of 2000 vehicles per month.
That Russia has hardly any army left as their losses were so high.

Yet none ever bothered to look at the map to see that Russia is gaining ground, they never could explain that one.
 
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