Well since every one of you argue with me....what does that say about you lot ?
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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You support a regime that deports, kills and rapes, much like the Nazis.
What does that say about you?
Well I have just had a look at the map.
So if Russia takes the rest of Donbass isn't that goal achieved for them ?
Isn't that a victory for Russia as NATO were unable to prevent it and Russia has no real need to go any further.
I suppose peace talks can resume if that happens, unless NATO put boots on the ground.
This map is a bit more detailed than the previous ones I looked at, puts into perspective a little more as to how much land has been captured/stolen. I'm not surprised that casualties are so high now on both sides.
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Your words don't say anything about me, they are a reflection of you.
Soldato
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Yeah it's like someone gave long range precision guided rockets or something
It will be interesting to see if these strikes on ammunition depots will have a material impact on the volume of shelling the Russian's are able to sustain over the coming days.
This is an information war and I reckon Ukraine are getting very good intel indeed.
I'm not sure this "operational pause" is hugely about the current ammo situation or even the need to rest front line forces who've been operating constantly in the east of Ukraine. Russia has been moving a lot of equipment out of storage in the east of Russia to staging areas in the western military district, moving command elements into Belarus and the Belarus army has many battalions stood up. I think they are trying to put together a larger force for another combined push at some point and holding for that. Although as before the man power side of it is a challenge without dipping heavily into their regular armed forces.
It is possible that is behind Putin's words about "not getting started in Ukraine yet".
EDIT: As previously though I think Belarus is trying to balance between keeping Putin happy and inaction and doesn't want to get involved with this but are under pressure to do so.
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That depends on what the overall goal is. We know from Putin's rhetoric at the start of the campaign he wanted to oust the Ukrainian Government and from the way the military entered Ukraine that was his goal at that time. So will he stop at the Donbass? Otherwise the Donbass is a stepping stone towards the real goal.
NATO aren't fighting this war, you need to be extremely clear on that point. A collection of countries around the world are supplying Ukraine with money/supplies and arms. Rhetoric and sanctions are not declarations of war.
If Russia stops at the Donbass and that gets annexed. There is still nothing stopping Ukraine joining NATO if it so wants.
Putin's words say no - he recently commanded an operational pause in preparation for pushing beyond the Donbas.
I see a proxy war, just because the West doesn't want to label it that way it doesn't mean that's not what it is.
The same way Russia says this is a military operation and we all know that is a load of bs, this is a war and this is an invasion. A very brutal and illegal invasion which involves stealing land from the Ukrainian people.
I do not see Russia wanting to go past Donbass unless peace talks are refused from the Ukrainian/American side, then the war prolongs. Russia really doesn't have the capability to hold the whole of Ukraine so it would be a very unrealistic goal.
That's what pretty much started all this.
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I do not think Russia are capable of taking over the whole of Ukraine, it seems more like blustering from Putin.
Then it is a proxy war with the West, not vs NATO.
It is all still in Ukraine's hands, not Americas. You have to remember Zelensky got offered a ride out by Biden and he refused.
America is always the whipping boy of blame for the East, and in this conflict it is pretty much blameless, with the only tiny thing you could claim would be discussing NATO membership with Ukraine.
It is all still in Ukraine's hands, not Americas. You have to remember Zelensky got offered a ride out by Biden and he refused.
America is always the whipping boy of blame for the East, and in this conflict it is pretty much blameless, with the only tiny thing you could claim would be discussing NATO membership with Ukraine.
Currently he seems to be hedging his bets* with what he is saying both to domestic audiences and foreign while scrambling around to see what kind of forces they can pull together and what kind of support they can expect from partners abroad - he seems fully intent to push on if able to.
* i.e. making a big deal of LNR "liberating their homeland" and handing out medals, while also talking about building up more forces.
Without American backing Ukraine never would have stood to fight against Russia, they would have agreed to not join NATO.
America is playing a large large part in this conflict, you just have to look at who is supplying most of the military equipment, who is supplying most of the money to fund the war.
This isn't some blame game, America does have a massive role in this war.
Ah but there in lies the difference. America had nothing to do with the inital conflict breaking out.
Talks between NATO and Ukraine have been ongoing since Ukraines independence back in 1991. Which was a result of the fall of the USSR, at this point Russia couldn't do anything about it. Fast foward 20 odd years and Russia gets shirty in Crimea which effectively starts the fast track as Ukraine rightly feels threatened by Russia.
Russia are only kicking off about support for Ukraine because they assumed the West would sit on their hands like last time. Now they face a realisation of Western arms flowing into Ukraine making their job a shed tonne harder.
Talks between NATO and Ukraine have been ongoing since Ukraines independence back in 1991. Which was a result of the fall of the USSR, at this point Russia couldn't do anything about it. Fast foward 20 odd years and Russia gets shirty in Crimea which effectively starts the fast track as Ukraine rightly feels threatened by Russia.
Russia are only kicking off about support for Ukraine because they assumed the West would sit on their hands like last time. Now they face a realisation of Western arms flowing into Ukraine making their job a shed tonne harder.
TBH this is somewhat tempered by resources - if we were a richer country with a larger amount of hardware on hand we'd probably be bigger even than the US in supplying Ukraine. (Albeit that somewhat seemed to be driven by trying to save Boris's skin).
I have posted this article from The Guardian previously, it's worth a read.
It was written on Feb 28th so around the start of this invasion.
It does bring to light some facts what a lot here seem totally unware of or just plain denial.
Now of course this is just an opinion of the person who wrote it so in no way will everyone see it in the same way.
Soldato
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Belarus is definitely an interesting one in this, they do appear to be preparing for something but maybe it's just stalling, Russia must be very unhappy with the lack of Belarusian direct support, though they are guilty of allowing Russia access and seemingly throwing some kind of support behind them.
Have Belarus officially sent any units into the fight? or is it Belarusians dressed as Russians?
I think largely it is Lukashenko trying to balance between keeping Putin happy and not getting involved - but sooner or later he is going to have to do something more material other than saying stuff and moving forces around to make it look like he is doing something - Putin will get tired of it eventually.
I don't believe Belarus has any soldiers in the fight even dressed as Russians acting officially. There are various soldiers (or former soldiers) from Belarus fighting in Ukraine unsanctioned - some fighting for Ukraine some against.
But again here in lies Russias historical need for barrier states between it and the West, the satellite states. The USSR dissolved and these states all got their independance, so therefore they get the rights to choose military and economic alliances.
Whats to say they join the EU, then the EU decides to create a mutual defence force. Russia still ends up having states on its doorstep that are potentially unfriendly.
The ideal situation for Russia is that it has "independant" countries buffer between it and NATO that rely on Russia economically, or have pro Russian governments. But if they had gone about it with economic ties, mutually beneficial relationships rather than more authoritarian ones then NATO membership wouldn't have been aspired too in the first place as the countries it wanted to buffer would be prosperous and more Russian leaning.
Whats to say they join the EU, then the EU decides to create a mutual defence force. Russia still ends up having states on its doorstep that are potentially unfriendly.
The ideal situation for Russia is that it has "independant" countries buffer between it and NATO that rely on Russia economically, or have pro Russian governments. But if they had gone about it with economic ties, mutually beneficial relationships rather than more authoritarian ones then NATO membership wouldn't have been aspired too in the first place as the countries it wanted to buffer would be prosperous and more Russian leaning.
You don't distinguish though between where NATO has made overtures and what Ukraine has done. Despite the position NATO took and invitations of the 2008 era Ukraine legislated against joining external security alliances, allowing only for cooperative partnerships and that was upheld even by more Western leaning leaders until Russian actions in 2014 (maybe that was used as an excuse who knows).
Ukraine–NATO relations - Wikipedia
Relations with Ukraine
A strong, independent Ukraine is vital for the stability of the Euro-Atlantic area. Relations between NATO and Ukraine date back to the early 1990s and have since developed into one of the most substantial of NATO’s partnerships. Since 2014, in the wake of Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea...
Every step since has been in response to Russian actions (ostensibly) with the constant large scale Russian build ups and draw downs of the 2019-2021 era being responsible for pushing Ukraine towards more directly getting involved with NATO - even in the 2021 meetings Ukraine stated any further [additional] steps towards NATO was contingent on new Russian actions.
Russia can mope about it - we can even split hairs about what was going on behind the scenes/agendas - but like with Finland and Sweden Russia has had a huge hand in propelling along its own nightmare.
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