2022 mini-budget discussion

[CapitalOne]

BBC reporting today truss is not ruling out benefits cuts. While at same time making unfunded tax cuts

Can't wait to see the next set of opinion polls and her next cringe interview

I’m sure I saw one yesterday with Lab at 50% vs Con 25%.

Initial shocks now being over I think we can all calmly agree, politics aside, the Tory party are continuing their now proud tradition of total incompetence (tm) championed by Johnson. They couldn’t run a bath let alone a country. It’s an embarrassment.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

I’m sure I saw one yesterday with Lab at 50% vs Con 25%.

Initial shocks now being over I think we can all calmly agree, politics aside, the Tory party are continuing their now proud tradition of total incompetence (tm) championed by Johnson. They couldn’t run a bath let alone a country. It’s an embarrassment.

They not running the country really they just making stuff up and rolling with it.

It’s the people / public who are running the country.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Someone who's seriously having issues at 100k are just really bad with money

Have a look at the post from the guy on the previous page, working out the largest mortgage they could "afford" if they were on 100k. Once you do the same exercise with the car and the family holiday I think you'll find that "really bad with money" could be applied to anyone on any income.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I think the issue is the use of the word "Struggle"

I don't think it's the appropriate word for someone who's overspending at that wage and their outgoings are greater than their income. At 100K you can easily make changes to your lifestyle to accommodate your wage and bring spending down. Downsize your 5-bedroom house, buy cheaper food, and get rid of the car. Etc and still will be able to live decent lifestyles that most here would relish and strive for.

Someone on minimum wage most likely can't do any of those things as they're probably living in a tiny flat, have no car, and already using Aldi or foodbanks. There's nowhere else to cut your spending and you have to choose between eating and heating. That's real struggling that someone on 100K will not experience.

Someone who's seriously having issues at 100k are just really bad with money

But the point is, if you want to even own your own flat and eat okish food, you gotta be earning near triple digits here in most places in london especially if you have children or live on you’re own.

Make no mistake, 100k salary doesnt buy you a mansion and Goucho stake night every night…

I think many here missed the point completely about the 100k struggle part and i dont know how many times me and others here have to explain it before people actually understand…

 

[jonneymendoza]

BBC reporting today truss is not ruling out benefits cuts. While at same time making unfunded tax cuts

Can't wait to see the next set of opinion polls and her next cringe interview

i think everyone here and in the uK as a whole needs to stop voting for tores and labour..

You all say its a waste of vote but thats all BS as the voting numbers dont lie.

If everyone votes for Lib Dem, guess who wins the election…. Simple math ffs

Anyone that says “o but its a wasted vote” do not have a leg to stand on and moan about the current gov that THEY voted for…

 

[Doobedoo]

But the point is, if you want to even own your own flat and eat okish food, you gotta be earning near triple digits here in most places in london especially if you have children or live on you’re own.

Make no mistake, 100k salary doesnt buy you a mansion and Goucho stake night every night…

I think many here missed the point completely about the 100k struggle part and i dont know how many times me and others here have to explain it before people actually understand…

Are saying minimum wage needs to be 100k if you live in London?

How do people manage doing a regular job in London?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

i think everyone here and in the uK as a whole needs to stop voting for tores and labour..

You all say its a waste of vote but thats all BS as the voting numbers dont lie.

If everyone votes for Lib Dem, guess who wins the election…. Simple math ffs

Anyone that says “o but its a wasted vote” do not have a leg to stand on and moan about the current gov that THEY voted for…

The Lib Dems do not have the depth of talent or experience for that - coalition is the way forward, and that means ditching FPTP. Although, we've seen with the Lib Dems in the past that in a coalition they will be complete chameleons, so I'm not convinced they'd be worth a vote.

They aren't even the third largest party in the UK; that particular party has been completely demonised by both the Tories and Labour... I mean, just look at what the monsters get up to, you wouldn't want this kind of influence in Westminster...

Nicola Sturgeon & SNP ministers decline £1million in wages as FM remains on £135k

NICOLA Sturgeon and her ministers have been praised for putting more than £1million from their pay packets back into public coffers. SNP chiefs have declined to accept their full salary entitlement…

www.thescottishsun.co.uk

Scotland's Introducing A Rent Freeze, Why Not The Rest Of The UK?

Campaigners have warned that if the government doesn't take action soon, we could face a cost of renting crisis.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

 

[platinum87]

I think the issue is the use of the word "Struggle"

I don't think it's the appropriate word for someone who's overspending at that wage and their outgoings are greater than their income. At 100K you can easily make changes to your lifestyle to accommodate your wage and bring spending down. Downsize your 5-bedroom house, buy cheaper food, and get rid of the car. Etc and still will be able to live decent lifestyles that most here would relish and strive for.

Someone on minimum wage most likely can't do any of those things as they're probably living in a tiny flat, have no car, and already using Aldi or foodbanks. There's nowhere else to cut your spending and you have to choose between eating and heating. That's real struggling that someone on 100K will not experience.

Someone who's seriously having issues at 100k are just really bad with money

I've personally never met anyone who is on the situation you describe, as in, nothing left to cut.

This includes plenty of people on minimum wage at various companies i've worked for etc.

However there are people who cannot currently afford to cut, but could have saved up in the past, and quite a lot.

Its not enough to cut down, your income needs to go to zero, and you should be able to live off your savings, while you attempt to get your income back up to what it was.

But the point is, if you want to even own your own flat and eat okish food, you gotta be earning near triple digits here in most places in london especially if you have children or live on you’re own.

Make no mistake, 100k salary doesnt buy you a mansion and Goucho stake night every night…

I think many here missed the point completely about the 100k struggle part and i dont know how many times me and others here have to explain it before people actually understand…

What is your point, not owning or having your own flat is not struggling.

 

[Efour]

I think you're governmentally screwed whatever. The choice between the 2(3) is the giant douche or the turd sandwich.

I dunno how British people put up with it.
Flip flopping from red to blue every 3 election cycles or 16 years, whatever it is I can't remember.
You could set your clock by it
Next election is your labour time. They won't do any better this time.
Maybe try a fascist alternative?
Worked in the 30s
Nothing bad happened in Spain Italy or Germany,,,,, ohhhh

 

[Deleted User 298457]

People dont struggle on 100k, their desired lifestyle struggles.

You're right, and please don't think I am asking you to cry a river -- but one final attempt at explaining the 100k issue -
* Bills go up by an unpredictable amount
* Mortgage rates go up at an unpredictable pace

Person below £100k has "options" that person on 100k doesn't e.g. overtime. Person on £100k gets taxed approx. 60% on every £1 over £100k, AND if they have kids, immediately lose/need to pay back the £2k childcare allowance.

I did the maths - £100k -> £106k is a net "£200" in your pocket after tax and paying 'benefits' back. That means it costs £5,800 to unlock an extra £200 (FOR THE YEAR).

So say you earn £5,200 a month and you are slammed on mortgage because you've cut your cloth according to your salary (go look up a post @Scam made to hypothetical breakdown a £100k earners salary, post a big mortgage), and then you get a "one two" punch with mortgage and utilities -> you would need to earn SUBSTANTIALLY more to cover your outgoings, or simply go broke. Folk on £100k are in a rock and a hard place because "in theory" they are loaded, but in reality, the struggle is just different. Yes, they could live in a low cost of living location, and most do - to offset the cost of childcare - but it soons comes back as most £100k roles will expect some level of mobility at the employees expense.

It isn't easy to be on £100k and the "top yourself up" by enough to make a meaningful difference each month. People in that bracket are helpless to substantial price rises, unless they do what nobody on any tax brackets wants to do - up sticks, move, gentrify a dump and then price out the locals. All because the taxation at £100k is unfair and disproportionate.

As I said before, the tapering allowance changes behaviours and doesn't help taxation at all - because people simply top up their pensions and/or get an electric car. Net receipts for the government down, net receipts for the person down --- the only beneficiary is the pension providers.

 

[Doobedoo]

Oh the struggles are deep choosing which which form of tax evasion to apply

 

[Murphy]

r4today IDS just blaming the Queen for u-turn - from the conference .. they hadn't had much time to 'roll the pitch' with the sad death of the queen

The most telling thing about that is they even needed to 'roll the pitch'. How out of touch do you need to be not to know how something like that would go down!

Also if they're making policy decisions based on how well they go down with the public what does that say?

The Lib Dems do not have the depth of talent or experience for that - coalition is the way forward, and that means ditching FPTP. Although, we've seen with the Lib Dems in the past that in a coalition they will be complete chameleons, so I'm not convinced they'd be worth a vote.

They aren't even the third largest party in the UK.

And i think the last 12 year of pure Conservative government has shown us how much of a moderating influence they were.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Oh the struggles are deep choosing which which form of tax evasion to apply

Neither of those are tax evasion. Go look up the word and learn something.

 

[CapitalOne]

So, Truss now says she is “personally committed to sorting out the economy”. Well that’s ok then.

I’m reminded of the time my Black Cabbie was “personally committed to sorting out immigration”, or if you like hypotheticals, when Mary Berry said she was pesonally committed to sorting out cold fusion.

 

[Doobedoo]

Neither of those are tax evasion. Go look up the word and learn something.

Evasion/avoidance tomato/tomatoe

 

[413x]

But if you're on 100k and sensitive to mortgage price rises you've over extended yourself right?

That's what everyone gets told who struggles with base rate rises.

"oh you should have planned for that"



I don't think anyone will convince me 100k isn't a lot. I can accept if it requires a central London job it isn't a bed orlf roses until you retire (and can down size) but it certainly isn't a struggle. I expect most put up with it for the future. Having that house worth million +. I having that full pension.

So even if it isn't luxury now, you're planning for later.

 

[Raymond Lin]

You're right, and please don't think I am asking you to cry a river -- but one final attempt at explaining the 100k issue -
* Bills go up by an unpredictable amount
* Mortgage rates go up at an unpredictable pace

Person below £100k has "options" that person on 100k doesn't e.g. overtime. Person on £100k gets taxed approx. 60% on every £1 over £100k, AND if they have kids, immediately lose/need to pay back the £2k childcare allowance.

I did the maths - £100k -> £106k is a net "£200" in your pocket after tax and paying 'benefits' back. That means it costs £5,800 to unlock an extra £200 (FOR THE YEAR).

So say you earn £5,200 a month and you are slammed on mortgage because you've cut your cloth according to your salary (go look up a post @Scam made to hypothetical breakdown a £100k earners salary, post a big mortgage), and then you get a "one two" punch with mortgage and utilities -> you would need to earn SUBSTANTIALLY more to cover your outgoings, or simply go broke. Folk on £100k are in a rock and a hard place because "in theory" they are loaded, but in reality, the struggle is just different. Yes, they could live in a low cost of living location, and most do - to offset the cost of childcare - but it soons comes back as most £100k roles will expect some level of mobility at the employees expense.

It isn't easy to be on £100k and the "top yourself up" by enough to make a meaningful difference each month. People in that bracket are helpless to substantial price rises, unless they do what nobody on any tax brackets wants to do - up sticks, move, gentrify a dump and then price out the locals. All because the taxation at £100k is unfair and disproportionate.

As I said before, the tapering allowance changes behaviours and doesn't help taxation at all - because people simply top up their pensions and/or get an electric car. Net receipts for the government down, net receipts for the person down --- the only beneficiary is the pension providers.

Devil's advocate here...

Not every single person earning under 100k can "top" up with overtime either, I am on way less than 100k on my PAYE job and i don't get overtime.

I can see you are trying to illustrate that due to the tax bracket, an increase in gross wage for 100k+ doesn't yield the same as someone on say 25k salary a year for say 1% increase (not done the math....but i don't think so). However.....the person at 100k salary has a heck a lot more options in lifestyle choices perspective than someone on 25k.

I know given the choice...no one here would choose the 25k job.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Evasion/avoidance tomato/tomatoe

Yeah except it isn't... but good job staying ignorant.

 

[Murphy]

...and you should be able to live off your savings, while you attempt to get your income back up to what it was.

Savings! Something like a third of people have less than £600 in savings so that's not going to last long.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

But if you're on 100k and sensitive to mortgage price rises you've over extended yourself right?

That's what everyone gets told who struggles with base rate rises.

"oh you should have planned for that"

It is literally what every boomer with a 20% LTV says regardless of salary. The point is at £100k your opportunity to earn more is difficult because of the stealth 60% tax. Percentages are all fun and games until they apply to big numbers.