Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Tony habergham said:
I think the proposed peaceful settlement, were Russia withdraws from everywhere they occupied except Crimea, which is demilitarized, is possibly the best outcome that can be hoped for.
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Does that mean my relatives, well my Godparent's Son and his family, get their house and property back? The house they were forced to leave at gunpoint by Russian soldiers with nothing but the clothes on their back and whatever possessions they could pack in half an hour or so. The two kids, 3 and 5 at the time, do they get compensation for the constant, horrendous nightmares they suffered from, nightmares that they still have to this day? If not, you can **** that plan right off.
 
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Mrwong said:
If you, want to lose everything that has been accomplished by those before us then what going on now is the way to go.

Would you have your home door open and allow any person to move in? would you accept the loss of control of your own home?
At what point do you start to say this is not good for me? by then it maybe to late to do anything.
it is an abuse of the system, just like in east Ukraine.
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If the supposed 'peoples' rebellion in Tsarist Russia didn't give people control over their affairs I can't see you or I having control over ours to such an extent as to override the wishes of the nuevo nobility.
 
Sankari said:
Both ethnically and culturally, Crimea is Ukrainian. Russians didn't even live there (except as slaves) until Catherine the Great invaded and stole it in 1783.
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It wasn't ukrainian though it was part of the Turkish empire before the russians captured it and populated by majority muslim Tatars until Stalin had them forcibly transported to the furthest reaches of russia. They started returning under ukranian rule only to flee again once the russians took over there was even one story where one family moved to somewhere north of Kyiv where they had to flee russian aggression yet again, before that it was settled by descendents of germanic speaking ostrogoths and you could still hear their distinctive speech as late as the 18thC. Its been fought over again and again even we stuck our oar in at one point the bell that rung at Windsor for the Queen's funeral was captured at Sevatopol during the Crimean War part of the reason for that war was to try and limit... russian expansionist aggression.

I_M_Weasel said:
Capturing the bridges and the dam across the river was one of the very few successes the Russians had, don't even have that show for it now.

If Russia really does want to negotiate, I don't understand why you would just abandon Kherson - one lesss thing to bargain with.
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Didn't have much choice and crossing the river and blowing the bridge is a sound strategic move its something like a mile wide at this point and the russians will be well dug in on the other side the ukranians likely won't even bother trying to cross any attack will come from the north

dowie said:
To be fair that *does* sound like the sort of thing the West would push for... I'd just be surprised if Ukraine were to start with being willing to give up Crimea, though the demilitarised aspect does change that slightly.

It seems plausible more as the end result of negotiations but I guess, in fact, if they're approaching this as "this is what we're willing to offer" and not budging on it then it is more feasible and the negotiations just become more about how to implement it and on what timeline... + filling in the details.
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Its almost certainly the long game and lets Putin save face, more or less. Biden's probably also aware that unlimited support will not continue indefinitely especially if Republicans gain control of the House(s) or theres a republican POTUS in future. Better to call terms while they still can
 
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chaparral said:
Here a link to a very good Source for this :cry:

www.dailymail.co.uk

Putin 'offered surrender terms by West' as he loses control of Kherson

The plan would see Putin give up all territory he currently occupies in Ukraine except Crimea, which would become a demilitarized zone, in return for avoiding war crimes prosecution.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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There's absolutely no why Russia should be able to walk away with zero consequences for their actions. They need to be punished harshly to show China that they can't get awat with BS rhetoric and threats
 
mattyfez said:
That Daily hate article is rubbish, there's no reason for Ukraine to capitulate at this point.
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OK you no like the Daily fail......

Here another news site :cry::cry::cry: (where page 3 on the online version :D)
www.thesun.co.uk

Putin 'offered surrender deal' as Ukraine retakes Kherson & troops die in river

VLADIMIR Putin has been offered a surrender deal by the West as his forces faced humiliating defeat, it’s been claimed. The Ukrainian flag has been raised in the retaken city of Kherson as th…
www.thesun.co.uk www.thesun.co.uk
 
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Who needs enemies when you have Wagner for friends. They went full hammer time on one of their own. Guess it still helps Ukraine but pro-tip, stay in prison!
 
Agree with one of the comments in the thread though - if we want peace in the coming years the best thing to do is to end Russia in Ukraine as soon as possible because if they can achieve their goals with this kind of approach, even at huge cost to life, it will only encourage others like China.

Though needs to be balanced with weakening Russia so they can't just try this again any time soon.
 
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Rroff said:
Agree with one of the comments in the thread though - if we want peace in the coming years the best thing to do is to end Russia in Ukraine as soon as possible because if they can achieve their goals with this kind of approach, even at huge cost to life, it will only encourage others like China.

Though needs to be balanced with weakening Russia so they can't just try this again any time soon.
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China looking on gleefully as it 'weakens the west' by pumping so much resource into Ukraine. Luckily they're closer to China than us so could be beneficial long term!
 
dLockers said:
China looking on gleefully as it 'weakens the west' by pumping so much resource into Ukraine. Luckily they're closer to China than us so could be beneficial long term!
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I saw a figure that the US has spent just 6% on the cost of this war compared to the equivalent 8 months of war in Afganistan. Cheap way of crushing Russia really - and no US lives lost.
 
Dec 5th will be interesting as thats when an enforced price cap on Russian Oil transported by sea comes in. The price cap would prohibit shippers, insurers and insurance brokers in compliant countries from providing services to oil buyers in other countries trading Russian oil above a specified price level. The price cap apparently being set is just enough to cover the production cost and nothing more so it should hit the Russian economy.
 
ChrisLX200 said:
I saw a figure that the US has spent just 6% on the cost of this war compared to the equivalent 8 months of war in Afganistan. Cheap way of crushing Russia really - and no US lives lost.
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Its also boosting the US defence industry as the US are sending all their older munitions and equipment and replacing it with new gear that rolling off the production line
 
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