Thoughts on Excessive Speed

[Thekwango]

Lol. Will it crack the window? Most certainly, will it shatter, absolutely not.

ok then, seeing as you want to focus on that one made up example, lets try another. you have a blow out at 170+.....what happens to you?

And yet, my point still stands that people cant seem to grasp the driving to the conditions part of the post And seems you still dont get it either.

we've all grasped the driving conditions point you keep trying to make but you've not grasped or accepted that a lot of the conditions, for the most part, are out of your control.

Im going to go excessively speed off to Morrisons for some dinner, if I crash on the way ill let you know.

you want a medal? or just trying to be clever? i certainly couldn't care less if you crash on the way. all i hope is that if you do, it's only you that suffers from the consequences and not some innocent person going about their day.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Fragile glass and a propensity to get lost.

One would have liked to have thought that given the near Pebble Beach Concours collection under the auspices of the OCUK hierarchy this poor fellow, deprived of his (remind me, second or third car?) might have been offered something in the interim with at least a transverse V12 and a Spanish fighting bull on its flanks. Perhaps a lesser prancing horse logo on its snout...?


Even a lowly trident would have shown some consideration. He's left wondering if some terrible medical condition might befall him if he is so bold as to go searching for the possibly hidden cocaine, or even driving it to work tomorrow. Some say he's deserving of a new vehicle...

I would probably have also been furious about such a situation but would have seen that some fun with me might be sought should I put my predicament on here

Seriously though, glad you got it back OK

 

[kindai]

you want a medal? or just trying to be clever? i certainly couldn't care less if you crash on the way. all i hope is that if you do, it's only you that suffers from the consequences and not some innocent person going about their day.

Unfortunately I made it back with a pre-cooked chicken.

we've all grasped the driving conditions point you keep trying to make but you've not grasped or accepted that a lot of the conditions, for the most part, are out of your control.

Still dont get it I see, nevermind, moving on.

ok then, seeing as you want to focus on that one made up example, lets try another. you have a blow out at 170+.....what happens to you?

The car cuts power to the engine, I focus on keeping it out the barriers and it slides to a gentle stop?

 

[jpaul]

.... As the source of the misleading 1,000-kilometre stretch of German motorways is 30.2 percent report says

the difference in deaths between countries cannot be explained by solely by differences in motorway speed limits.

Germany, for example, does not have a speed limit on substantial stretches of its autobahn and it is in the middle of the pack when it comes to accident fatalities. Other factors tend to play a greater role such as the condition of the roads, traffic density, alcohol consumption and the geographical characteristics of individual countries. Interestingly, it cannot actually be said that speed play no role in fatal accidents

Taking a closer look at Germany, federal and state statistics reported by Der Spiegel show that there 0.95 fatal accidents per billion kilometres driven on German autobahn sections with speed limits. When it comes the parts without a speed limit, however, there are 1.67 fatal accidents - 75 percent more than on stretches with a speed limit.

but ymmv,
- driving conditions -, the other guy - UK has highest drink limit

 

[Thekwango]

Still dont get it I see, nevermind, moving on.

good that you're moving on. the conversation is obviously way over your head.

The car cuts power to the engine, I focus on keeping it out the barriers and it slides to a gentle stop?

aww i feel sorry for you. genuinely. you can't accept that high speed driving increases risk so you just try to be clever instead of replying properly. probably best you keep out of grown up conversations - see i can be a sarky dick too.

 

[Zeebedy]

so if travelling at those crazy speeds, and you get a blowout..ending up in a gentle stop?!

Jesus.

 

[Thekwango]

so if travelling at those crazy speeds, and you get a blowout..ending up in a gentle stop?!

Jesus.

oh don't, there's no point even trying to reason with stupidity. just let him post his nonsense.

 

[kindai]

good that you're moving on. the conversation is obviously way over your head.

And yet, you still havent grasped the inital post despite your protestations otherwise.

aww i feel sorry for you. genuinely. you can't accept that high speed driving increases risk so you just try to be clever instead of replying properly. probably best you keep out of grown up conversations - see i can be a sarky dick too.

Time for bed? You seem to be getting grumpy.

I know the whole conversation on driving to the conditions must be difficult for you, as you clearly dont understand them with your comments on driving 60 on a housing estate, but have a sleep and try again tomorrow.

You do know that most blowouts are practically non-events right? Its not like the movies where the tyre explodes, rips half the car off and sends it flipping over 12 times into a fireball of death.

Heck, I think my GTR thread has it documented where I had a blowout down the back straight at donnington, at 130-140mph, and literally just slowed the car down and took it into the pits where we whacked some green gunk into it and drove it home very slowly.

 

[Rroff]

I think you'll find a blowout on most cars at speed a good bit more dramatic than your experiences with the GTR :s

Slightly as an aside the GTR can stay composed encountering conditions which would flip many cars...

 

[kindai]

Slightly as an aside the GTR can stay composed encountering conditions which would flip many cars...

idiots beyond the capabilities of their skills and their cars capabilities

Yay full circle!

 

[Thekwango]

And yet, you still havent grasped the inital post despite your protestations otherwise.

so tell me then, what am i missing. i'm always happy to be educated. but make it super simple.

Time for bed? You seem to be getting grumpy.

I know the whole conversation on driving to the conditions must be difficult for you, as you clearly dont understand them with your comments on driving 60 on a housing estate, but have a sleep and try again tomorrow.

You do know that most blowouts are practically non-events right? Its not like the movies where the tyre explodes, rips half the car off and sends it flipping over 12 times into a fireball of death.

Heck, I think my GTR thread has it documented where I had a blowout down the back straight at donnington, at 130-140mph, and literally just slowed the car down and took it into the pits where we whacked some green gunk into it and drove it home very slowly.

time for bed cause i'm grumpy? not in the slightest, why in gods name would you think that - oh wait you don't. you're doing that thing folk do when their crap posting gets pointed out or they can't engage properly.

you don't need to educate me on the difference between movies and real life, in fact, i think you'd perhaps be better off trying to educate yourself on what happens in the real world. of course i know blow outs are usually a non event. won't be quite the same non event at 170mph. and to be honest i don't give to hoots what you did or didn't do on a race track. we're talking about actual road driving here not you having your jollies on a track.

 

[Journey]

Thoughts on excessive speed as per the OP question.

Stick to the legal speed limits as a maximum, and less in adverse driving conditions. It's bad enough worrying about the ability of other drivers on the road, let alone if you are unlucky enough to have an accident purely caused by your own speed. Getting somewhere ever so slightly faster just isn't worth it!

A question for feedback: If someone causes a fatality, accidental or not, and they were breaking the speed limit in a 2 ton metal death trap what should be the absolute minimum punishment if the driver survives?

 

[Rroff]

Yay full circle!

Not really - the GTR is one of the few cars you'd have a chance of walking away from the kind of blowout at the same kind of speed many other cars you wouldn't.

Even the GTR can't do miracles but it does handle conditions like that an order of magnitude better than your average supercar.

 

[Zeebedy]

I like you @kindai .

you make me chuckle!

 

[Thekwango]

Yay full circle!

it's not full circle, virtually everyone accepts that a car and it's drivers capabilities have a bearing on what happens. you, however, don't seem to accept speed or random events you don't have any control over also play a part. you're trying to be clever and coming across very silly. engage people properly without trying to be a smart arse and the conversation will be much more productive.

 

[AWPC]

Stick to legal limits on every road but go especially carefully around schools. animals, pedestrians & old people signs. As always though read the road conditions & adjust accordingly.

Its still quite possible to have a lot of fun driving safely on small deserted B roads at whatever the NSL is (usually 60 on those). Keep to the track for anything more works best.

Fast cars still have their place as the safety equipment is usually of a way higher standard than cheaper non performance cars. Plus they handle a lot better & make adverse weather conditions easier to navigate.

I would also say avoid night driving wherever possible outside of well light road areas as its so hard (even with modern Ultra bright LEDs) to see hazards.

If in doubt do not take any chances, let others go, give way, drive conservatively & get there safely but slower and the rest is down to blind luck (tyre blowouts, mechanical failures, other drivers or vehicles colliding with you etc etc).

 

[DRZ]

I have very little idea about how UK motorways compare. What should we be grateful for.

The most striking difference is our nice grade-separated entry and exit slip roads. In almost all cases in the UK, the exit slip is before the joining slip and as well as being grade separated they are usually (but not always) gently curved and/or end in a roundabout or a very visible set of traffic lights. German junctions are very very frequently not like that at all. Plenty of them, especially in rural areas, have a 90 degree bend immediately upon exiting the main carriageway, which is absolutely terrifying the first time you find yourself on an exit slip. There's also junctions like this: https://goo.gl/maps/poLw9AZRh2G1EjPs8 where you've got traffic entering the motorway before traffic leaving the motorway, with accelerating traffic and decelerating traffic sharing the slip. I think I've driven that exact junction too, although I can't be 100% sure. Not good, not good at all.

nope, not said that. plenty of roads to drive 100+ think they usually call them racetracks though.

sorry but you're not actually telling me anything here other than you'd like to be driving on the german autobahn. but are they really doing absolutely fine, no crashes or fatalities then i take it? what's the stats for german autobahn fatalities compared to the UK?

it's not an oversimplification - higher speed = higher risk. i really can't believe this was never taught to you on these advanced driving lessons. it's why we have speed limits, cause you know, to have a balance between getting nowhere fast and getting there in one piece.

i genuinely am not having a go a folk that speed (i'm not a saint driving round at or below the speed limit) but equally i'm not foolish enough to believe that driving at 100+mph on UK roads is a sensible thing to do, irrespective of the what the driver thinks to their ability, their cars, or the road conditions.

edit: just had a quick and dirty google - doesn't appear they are doing absolutely fine after all. happy to be correct though as it was just a quick search

Are Germany’s autobahns really the safest highways in the world?

German roads are ‘the safest in the world’, according to Federal Transport Minister Andreas Scheuer. But new figures looking at accidents and fatalities on Germany’s world-famous autobahns have cast significant doubt on that claim.

www.thelocal.de

I think what perhaps you're (deliberately?) not getting here twofold.

Firstly, the absolute speed value doesn't mean all that much to me. I am of the opinion that excessive speed is bad as I have indicated numerous times, but that doesn't correlate anywhere near 100% of the time with the speed limit for the road. Driving safely for the conditions is far more important than the speed limit. Posted speed limits being treated as hard indicators of safe speed is ludicrous. Would you do 20 in a 20 past a school at kicking out time? What if it was raining? Snowing? See my point? I come back once again to the road in Wales - someone navigating that road perfectly safely and legally at 60mph every day for years now would be up for a potential 28 day ban now it is a 40. The road didn't change, the driver didn't change, only the number in the circle changed and now their speed is "excessive".

Secondly, the German Autobahn thing. We'd need to disaggregate the data but your specific claim was that someone at 70 getting a stone impact on the windscreen would be fine but at 100mph would be fatal. My point is that in Germany it is a more or less everyday occurrence to drive at such speeds. Stone impacts will happen, but the fact that there isn't a catastrophic death rate tends to indicate that isn't actually all that likely. That's even factoring in your link above, which includes all the nutters doing the literal maximum speed their car will go on joyride day trips from far and wide and coming majorly unstuck.

 

[Gibbo]

so if travelling at those crazy speeds, and you get a blowout..ending up in a gentle stop?!

Jesus.

I’ve had a blow out at high speed as in well above 100mph and in short there was an almighty bang, to which I ceased acceleration but avoided braking and about 5-10s
Later I had tyre pressure warning stating 0psi.

The car to my surprise (911) stayed straight and I just let the speed come off without braking and once speed was around 50 I braked gently.

Also had a blow out at 40mph too which was no less dramatic explosion but due to the speed I just carried on until I could pull over safely, this was Exige. So naturally a light car on stuff sidewall tyres so even with a big hole in sidewall it still drove remarkably ok.

But neither resulted in me having any loss of control but I just remained calm and allowed the cars to come to a stop or manageable speed under their own momentum.

I’m sure at 170 it would be scary but in my two actual instances of it happening in real life it was a none event. Just hassle of recovery!

 

[Haggisman]

Eh? I think you fail to understand what driving to the conditions means.

Our motorways are generally, wide, flat, well lit, good visibility, with gentle corners, built to a high quality, with minimal obsticles and are generally pedestrian free.

A housing estate usually doesnt...

You're suggesting an unrealistic ideal scenario where the M5 has been closed for your personal use, every inch of the stretch you are using has been checked for and cleared of debris and potholes, and there are marshalls every few metres to ensure no foxes, deer, badgers, etc venture into the deserted road as you approach.

I'm suggesting an equally ludicrous scenario where a housing estate has been cleared of all parked cars and access has been blocked to all traffic and pedestrians.

There are plenty of roads round here where those conditions would allow me to drive safely at 60 mph.

If you want to drive at silly speeds then at least stick some blue flashing lights and a siren on your car so other drivers have some indication you might be approaching faster than expected and can react accordingly

 

[kindai]

Even the GTR can't do miracles but it does handle conditions like that an order of magnitude better than your average supercar.

Having been in the fortunate situation of having driven many of these cars, to a degree yes, the GTR against other cars of its time was miles ahead, but once you start getting into 458+, huracan, aventador, 720s etc types of cars, they all have incredible ability to deal with these events now.

The aventador for example, was the only car that ive ever driven on the skid pan that I couldnt get to break traction under heavy trailbraking and booting it into the power on the apex with the driver aids on while it was dry. Either the aids had to be turned off or it finally let go once we had a light shower, but even then a few minutes later it dried enough that it wouldnt let go.

so tell me then, what am i missing. i'm always happy to be educated. but make it super simple.

Because in the situation I described, driving to said near perfect conditions would mean even if something unpredictable happened, you would have plenty of time and space to manage the situation. Thats why it would be "driving to the conditions".