Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Grim5 said:
Ukraine related

Russian foreign ministry has released what it calls a peace plan. It says to get Russia to stop fighting, Ukraine must agree to:

* Recognise all Russian occupied territories as Russian

* Refuse to join EU and NATO

* Refuse any assistance from West, including weapons, money and humanitarian aid

* Adopt a Pro Russian political status

* Make Russian the only language allowed to be spoken in Ukraine
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Peace offer?

That's a surrender and submit to Russian rule offer
 
“Let us have what we wanted out of the war without fighting for it”. Great offer.

Best I can do is smashing you back into your own country /Rick Harrison
 
woppy101 said:
This just goes to show how retarded the Russian government really is.
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Oops, I clicked the wrong button.

Anyway...it shows that the Russian government has some understanding of politics, especially propaganda. By calling a demand for unconditional surrender a peace plan, they can frame their victim's refusal to surrender unconditionally as a refusal of peace and themself as the voice of reason, seeking peace. It's a blatant lie, obviously, but blatant lies can be useful for propaganda purposes. At the very least, it will serve for internal propaganda purposes.
 
"In order to achieve a comprehensive, just and lasting peace, Ukraine must restore its neutral, non-aligned status, as enshrined in the 1990 Declaration of its State Sovereignty, and refuse to join NATO and the EU.

The new territorial arrangements that have emerged through exercising the right of peoples to self-determination must be recognised."

He also stated that the traditional "denazification and demilitarisation" were necessary and that "a settlement is possible only if the Ukrainian Armed Forces cease hostilities".
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This was the actual quote from the Foreign Ministry for the peace plan. Nothing in there about refusing money, humanitarian aid, adopting a "pro Russian political stance" or making Russian the only language. Again, is it possible to stick to actual facts?

Grim5 said:
Ukraine related

Russian foreign ministry has released what it calls a peace plan. It says to get Russia to stop fighting, Ukraine must agree to:

* Recognise all Russian occupied territories as Russian

* Refuse to join EU and NATO

* Refuse any assistance from West, including weapons, money and humanitarian aid

* Adopt a Pro Russian political status

* Make Russian the only language allowed to be spoken in Ukraine
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Grim5 said:
Ukraine related

Russian foreign ministry has released what it calls a peace plan. It says to get Russia to stop fighting, Ukraine must agree to:

* Recognise all Russian occupied territories as Russian

* Refuse to join EU and NATO

* Refuse any assistance from West, including weapons, money and humanitarian aid

* Adopt a Pro Russian political status

* Make Russian the only language allowed to be spoken in Ukraine
Click to expand...

They seem to think they’re in a bargaining position. They can shove that where the sun don’t shine, along with a load of storm shadows and challenger tanks.
 
Roar87 said:
I'm honestly not sure what you achieve out of lying in a thread on OcUK about the reality of the situation in Ukraine.

Ukraine claimed they had forces near the MiG-17 monument in Bakhmut, but Wagner forces have video showing themselves at that monument, and Ukraine also reported no fighting in Bakhmut (because they no longer have forces there). The fighting is 1km away to the North West.

Institute for the Study of War

Russian authorities ended the “counterterrorism” operation in Belgorod Oblast and claimed to have defeated the all-Russian pro-Ukrainian Russian Volunteer Corps (RDK) and the Freedom of Russia Legion (LSR) in the region on May 23. The Russian Ministry of
www.understandingwar.org www.understandingwar.org
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Lying? There's still heavy fighting going on in Bakhmut

Your a deluded fool who thinks just because Prigozhin says it , it must be true.

The reality is he knew it was an impossible task, he lost all his prisoners, 20k dead and the rest freed as they fulfilled their 6 months service.

Now he's bleeding his own men dry and that's a concern for him.

So what does he do? Claim victory and hand it over to the Russians, only you and the Russian Propaganda machine believe it, actually the Russian propaganda machine probably don't as its their job to lie about everything.

Reality on the ground is it's still an active war zone
 
bris said:
Lying? There's still heavy fighting going on in Bakhmut

Your a deluded fool who thinks just because Prigozhin says it , it must be true.

The reality is he knew it was an impossible task, he lost all his prisoners, 20k dead and the rest freed as they fulfilled their 6 months service.

Now he's bleeding his own men dry and that's a concern for him.

So what does he do? Claim victory and hand it over to the Russians, only you and the Russian Propaganda machine believe it, actually the Russian propaganda machine probably don't as its their job to lie about everything.

Reality on the ground is it's still an active war zone
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Literally no one is reporting heavy fighting in Bakhmut, not even Ukraine lol.

www.nytimes.com

What Does Russia’s Success in Bakhmut Mean for the War in Ukraine?

Moscow has declared victory in its long, bloody assault. But a full capture of the ruined city may not help Russian forces advance deeper in the Donbas region.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com



www.nbcnews.com

Russian forces capture Bakhmut, a symbolic but costly victory

President Vladimir Putin's first major battlefield victory in nearly a year is a symbolic prize that comes as his troops are being forced onto the backfoot around the city and beyond.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
Roar87 said:
I've given my opinions which people are free to disagree with, but Grim5 is actually saying things he knows isn't true.
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I think Grim5s post was an attempt to summarise the statement(s) from Russia in a way which removes the diplomatic doublespeak.
 
Stretch said:
I think Grim5s post was an attempt to summarise the statement(s) from Russia in a way which removes the diplomatic doublespeak.
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There was nothing in the post about the Russian language, a pro Russian political stance or refusing humanitarian aid. This is adding things on that aren't true because you want to make Russia seem unwilling to negotiate.
 
Roar87 said:
There was nothing in the post about the Russian language, a pro Russian political stance or refusing humanitarian aid. This is adding things on that aren't true because you want to make Russia seem unwilling to negotiate.
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You may have missed it, I linked you a twitter about using the russian language part.
Problem is lots of them talk seemingly from a position of authority.

They are all liars though, you cant trust them as far as you could throw fatty musk.
 
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