Just what is NVIDIA up to?

SpellowHouse · 28 Jul 2023 at 07:48

Blackjack Davy said:
Of course its ~~malicious~~ just business the anaemic cards as you say are there to make you think its not worth it and may as well shell out mega moolah for the top end cards. Classic upselling.

All very well, but what happens to me is that I look higher and higher and eventually get to a price that I am simply not prepared to pay.

humbug · 28 Jul 2023 at 08:30

Joxeon said:
£649

2080Ti? that was $999.

humbug · 28 Jul 2023 at 10:15

Yes Steve, absolutely bang on, but you guys very rarely make this point, earlier you complained AMD was idiotic in their strategy, again yes, so instead of moaning at them about it try actually helping them by using your channel reach in dispelling this myth about AMD's drivers and eco system, they will appreciate that and be more receptive to your wider advice.

Is AMD Missing Out On Market Share? Zen 4 Using DDR5-8000? July Q&A [Part 2]

Hetzner: https://www.hetzner.com/hub/saSupport us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hardwareunboxedJoin us on Floatplane: https://www.floatplane.com/channe...

youtu.be

NZXT30 · 28 Jul 2023 at 11:14

humbug said:
Yes Steve, absolutely bang on, but you guys very rarely make this point, earlier you complained AMD was idiotic in their strategy, again yes, so instead of moaning at them about it try actually helping them by using your channel reach in dispelling this myth about AMD's drivers and eco system, they will appreciate that and be more receptive to your wider advice.

Is AMD Missing Out On Market Share? Zen 4 Using DDR5-8000? July Q&A [Part 2]

Hetzner: https://www.hetzner.com/hub/saSupport us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hardwareunboxedJoin us on Floatplane: https://www.floatplane.com/channe...

youtu.be

They've been calling everything idiotic ever since Linus bailed them out of the Nvidia fiasco.

humbug · 28 Jul 2023 at 12:02

NZXT30 said:
They've been calling everything idiotic ever since Linus bailed them out of the Nvidia fiasco.

Sure, i have plenty of my own opinions on them but on this they are not wrong.

Tech jurnoes used to make video's and articles on driver comparisons all the time, its how ATI/AMD got such a bad rep that clearly persist to this day, even some tech tubers still think that way while at the same time not have AMD GPU's in any of the machines they actually use, be it at home or work. the only actual experience they get with AMD's GPU's and its drivers is once every 6 months to a year in an automated benchmarking rig, Linus is one of those people and inevitably bangs on about how bad AMD's drivers are like its 2008.

NZXT30 · 28 Jul 2023 at 12:10

humbug said:
Sure, i have plenty of my own opinions on them but on this they are not wrong.

Tech jurnoes used to make video's and articles on driver comparisons all the time, its how ATI/AMD got such a bad rep that clearly persist to this day, even some tech tubers still think that way while at the same time not have AMD GPU's in any of the machines they actually use, be it at home or work. the only actual experience they get with AMD's GPU's and its drivers is once every 6 months to a year in an automated benchmarking rig, Linus is one of those people and inevitably bangs on about how bad AMD's drivers are like its 2008.

I'm not sure why you're focusing on the drivers. I don't see people mentioning AMD drivers anymore. It's ray tracing performance, DLSS 3, VR performance, power usage etc. that they cite as reasons for avoiding AMD.

humbug · 28 Jul 2023 at 12:16

NZXT30 said:
I'm not sure why you're focusing on the drivers. I don't see people mentioning AMD drivers anymore. It's ray tracing performance, DLSS 3, VR performance, power usage etc. that they cite as reasons for avoiding AMD.

I do, far to much and it seems Steve does too.

MCFC_ANDY · 28 Jul 2023 at 12:19

dunno why it takes 7 pages, only answer, as been said, they dont give a damn about gamers at this moment, along with them clowns on the red side

humbug · 28 Jul 2023 at 12:24

MCFC_ANDY said:
along with them clowns on the red side

You paid real money for a 3070. clown

gjbf1 · 28 Jul 2023 at 12:25

humbug said:
You paid real money for a 3070. clown

Harsh lol

Paracelsus · 28 Jul 2023 at 12:40

humbug said:
This idea that Intel can do to Nvidia what AMD can't seems delusional to me, straw clutching instead of facing up to the fact that we have to make the radical changes, people are just not going to buy an Intel GPU over an Nvidia one in numbers that matter unless it costs peanut's in comparison, just as it is with AMD, and Intel have already proven they are less willing to do that than AMD, this hope is bat #### crazy against all the evidence, what's it based on?

I don't disagree that Intel are unlikely to challenge nVidia's high-end for the forseeable future, they are so far ahead.
I was talking about CPUs, in relation to AMD. It's possible their next designs will beat AMDs and they regain CPU leadership, that's all. We've seen this happen to both companies multiple times over the years so I don't get the doomsday talk. AMD was on the verge of bankruptcy before Zen. Market seems to like their Q2 financials this morning too.

MCFC_ANDY · 28 Jul 2023 at 12:42

humbug said:
You paid real money for a 3070. clown

but not a lot of it

humbug · 28 Jul 2023 at 12:58

Paracelsus said:
I don't disagree that Intel are unlikely to challenge nVidia's high-end for the forseeable future, they are so far ahead.
I was talking about CPUs, in relation to AMD. It's possible their next designs will beat AMDs and they regain CPU leadership, that's all. We've seen this happen to both companies multiple times over the years so I don't get the doomsday talk. AMD was on the verge of bankruptcy before Zen. Market seems to like their Q2 financials this morning too.

By next gen i take it you're not Raptor Lake refresh, 14'th gen?

I said earlier Intel are just pushing CPU's that get ever more expensive to make and then hope AMD have another bulldozer moment so they can push pricing up to a point where they are actually profitable, that also how this post reads.

Intel need to get more competitive with far better designs than they have now.

gpuerrilla · 28 Jul 2023 at 12:59

Intel's server cpu's are getting destroyed. Not sure why the reference to the cpu in relation to AMD was a good comparison in that context lol.

Paracelsus · 28 Jul 2023 at 13:02

humbug said:
Intel need to get more competitive with far better designs than they have now.

Yes, agreed. The current architecture won't cut it, it's too power-hungry, they need another "Core" moment.

SpellowHouse · 28 Jul 2023 at 15:06

humbug said:
This idea that Intel can do to Nvidia what AMD can't seems delusional to me, straw clutching instead of facing up to the fact that we have to make the radical changes, people are just not going to buy an Intel GPU over an Nvidia one in numbers that matter unless it costs peanut's in comparison, just as it is with AMD, and Intel have already proven they are less willing to do that than AMD, this hope is bat #### crazy against all the evidence, what's it based on?

AMD just aren't hungry enough. They have a huge opportunity while NVIDIA fumbled the ball, and what do they do? Nothing. Where are the special offers? Where are the price cuts? Where are the freebies? No one is even trying to sell cards right now. It's as if NVIDIA and Mini-Me-AMD don't even care. Where's the innovation? The both need a kick up the pants.

gpuerrilla · 28 Jul 2023 at 15:10

I think some of the momentum was lost when at the reveal they touted a 50% improvement when in reality it was much lower (even with generous benchmarking from the reviewers). If the XT/X did offer that jump I think many more would have swayed.

Coupled with the high price tag (and hobbled uplift) it was never going to sit well.

humbug · 28 Jul 2023 at 15:23

gpuerrilla said:
I think some of the momentum was lost when at the reveal they touted a 50% improvement when in reality it was much lower (even with generous benchmarking from the reviewers). If the XT/X did offer that jump I think many more would have swayed.

Coupled with the high price tag (and hobbled uplift) it was never going to sit well.

Metro Exodus (RT) claim +50% vs 6950XT
Reality +47% vs 6900XT

CP2077 claim +70% vs 6950XT
Reality +52% vs 6900XT (oof)

Something has defiantly gone wrong there....

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX Review - Disrupting the GeForce RTX 4080

Navi 31 is here! The new $999 Radeon RX 7900 XTX in this review is AMD's new flagship card based on the wonderful chiplet technology that made the Ryzen Effect possible. In our testing we can confirm that the new RX 7900 XTX is indeed faster than the GeForce RTX 4080, but only with RT disabled.

www.techpowerup.com

SpellowHouse · 28 Jul 2023 at 15:44

NZXT30 said:
I'm not sure why you're focusing on the drivers. I don't see people mentioning AMD drivers anymore. It's ray tracing performance, DLSS 3, VR performance, power usage etc. that they cite as reasons for avoiding AMD.

I've said this before, but one of my big complaints is that all these reviewers rattle on about AMD, but they never review the partner cards. I like to do comparisons between the manufacturers to make sure I'm not buying a lemon, but there are no reviews.

KompuKare · 28 Jul 2023 at 15:53

NZXT30 said:
I'm not sure why you're focusing on the drivers. I don't see people mentioning AMD drivers anymore. It's ray tracing performance, DLSS 3, VR performance, power usage etc. that they cite as reasons for avoiding AMD.

Some corporate PR department must be driving what people think as last gen power usage was barely anywhere when Nvidia were behind.

Paracelsus said:
I don't disagree that Intel are unlikely to challenge nVidia's high-end for the forseeable future, they are so far ahead.
I was talking about CPUs, in relation to AMD. It's possible their next designs will beat AMDs and they regain CPU leadership, that's all. We've seen this happen to both companies multiple times over the years so I don't get the doomsday talk. AMD was on the verge of bankruptcy before Zen. Market seems to like their Q2 financials this morning too.

Markets would love it if a company cuts 90% of its workforce, sells all its assets and hands out huge dividends, spend their whole reserves to buy back shares supporting shareholders and speculators. That said company will go bankrupt next year is seldom important for short-term thinkers like financial markets.

Paracelsus said:
Yes, agreed. The current architecture won't cut it, it's too power-hungry, they need another "Core" moment.

It's mainly power hungry because their cores are huge. And that is what is hurting them in the data centre. They are just very very lucky that so many data centre buyers are so conservative. Intel are also willing to almost give their server chips away as the margins on DC show.