The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**

[mid_gen]

I'm really curious which players you lot think ETH is getting performances out of. If the Sancho situation was an outlier in a team that was performing well I'd be more inclined to agree he's the problem.... but all the evidence so far is that ETH can't get a performance out of any of the players and is prone to having irreversible breakdowns in relations with his team.

United are getting worse every week under his leadership at present. He's a failure.

 

[Thekwango]

and is prone to having irreversible breakdowns in relations with his team.

1 player. he's had a breakdown in relations with one player so far. Sancho. after having spent a great deal of time and effort, seemingly, to help and support him through whatever his issues are. all of which resulted in sancho still being crap. of course that could be on the manager but summat tells me that sancho is just a primadonna.

unless of course you're including CR7 in that list but i don't think we can blame eth for that situation. love him as a player but ronnie is just a tart and was better off being let go.

just for clarity, i'm not convinced on eth either - tactically he seems very blinkered/limited - but having a pop at him for sanchos escapades and now rashfords isn't really fair, imo.

 

[Calpol]

I'm really curious which players you lot think ETH is getting performances out of. If the Sancho situation was an outlier in a team that was performing well I'd be more inclined to agree he's the problem.... but all the evidence so far is that ETH can't get a performance out of any of the players and is prone to having irreversible breakdowns in relations with his team.

United are getting worse every week under his leadership at present. He's a failure.

I can't see him as a failure. I think that's a bit silly. I too am frustrated at the poor quality football we play, even last season we weren't often good to watch. There were moments of promise between September and the World Cup break but after that our form really fell off and we limped to the end of the season. Fundamentally the players have been coached by people with different philosophies over the past 5 years and are a squad assembled with no overriding club plan. Therefore I just dont think they are cohesive hence why some people are calling for a clearout. We see periods of pressing just like we saw under Rangnick, it's more sustained but not disciplined and consistent. Part of that is that they aren't capable and part is that the injuries this season have completely eroded the base of the team.

Where I think ten Hag can be criticised is some of the signings. Antony is not a player that any of the other top clubs would have paid £85m for. The Mount signing baffles me when we have Bruno and Eriksen in the team. Especially when McTominay is being tried in the number 10 position.

With regard squad discipline. It is required and I fully support actions taken against players who do not contribute to the team ethic. He's made big calls on Ronaldo, Sancho, Rashford and probably a few other. This is what happens in elite sport. Pep or Klopp don't take prisoners. You do as the coach says or you don't play - simple. Where I think EtH can be criticised is that he definitely has stuck with players who are out of form for too long and not given more opportunity to young players who have played well in cameos.

I think the time to judge ten Hag is when he has had a run of games with his preferred back four which presumably is Onana, Shaw, AWB, Varane and Martinez. That back four gives a very different platform as it will squeeze up the pitch and stop some of the "playing through" we have seen at times. He also needs to resolve the midfield formation. Casemiro has not got the legs for this league. I think he is a poor signing in terms of longevity but he was not the first choice (de Jong). Eriksen, McTominay can only be squad players. Tactically I think he is astute but the players are not. Fernandes as captain I get from some regards but I don't think he has a view of the game and brings chaos when we need calm. I'd prefer a CB or CDM as captain.

As fans I think we need to accept that this season will be unpredictable. We've been terrible but still site only two wins from top 4 and everyone is dropping points. Progress for me will be beating teams in the top half away from home. Something we barely managed last season. From there we have to see what Sir Jim's investment brings and hope that the football infrastructure starts to get sorted. Without that the doom loop will continue in perpetuity,

 

[Robbo]

Good to see common sense prevail here.

Alejandro Garnacho: FA will not charge Manchester United forward over social media post involving Andre Onana

An FA spokesperson said: We are satisfied with Alejandro Garnachos explanation and the context it provides, so we will not be issuing disciplinary proceedings on this occasion. We have reminded the player of his responsibilities around social media posts and the use of emojis.

www.skysports.com

 

[fez]

A rare show of common sense from the FA. I'm sure that plenty of the usual suspects will be condemning this problematic approach of not seeing everything as racist that possibly could be.

 

[Vandle]

Absolutely love that quote from Onana. "People cannot choose what I should be offended by"

 

[Bigpig]

Absolutely love that quote from Onana. "People cannot choose what I should be offended by"

Boss.
Do we have to stop using the phrase built like a gorilla now?

Good on the FA don’t even know why the FA looked into it. It clearly wasn’t abuse.

 

[Reuben klang]

Boss.
Do we have to stop using the phrase built like a gorilla now?

Good on the FA don’t even know why the FA looked into it. It clearly wasn’t abuse.

We live in a society now where people get offended by the slightest thing even if it has absolutely nothing to do with them or impacts them in anyway what so ever.

I would be surprised if people now complain that the racist tweet wasn’t taken serious and has been brushed under the carpet.

Should clarify that I don’t think it was racist and the correct outcome.

 

[Steedie]

Disappointed to see ETH is still in a job this morning. No idea how.

Being serious though, enough is enough. I’ve hated the way we’ve just gone through managers in recent years, but ETH is definitely deserving of the sack and keeping him is just doing more harm than good

I’m convinced that the first half of last season was just a fluke and new manager bounce as since that wore off, he’s shown he’s absolutely lost and has no ideas on how to fix anything

His substitutions are just mental, so bad. I almost prefer Ole’s approach of just not making any subs.

He’s totally out of his depth and has no clue on how to turn this around. We have no play style, he doesn’t know his best team, he has no tactical knowledge from what I can see or that shows on the pitch. He’s just bloody awful

 

[Calpol]

Disappointed to see ETH is still in a job this morning. No idea how.

Being serious though, enough is enough. I’ve hated the way we’ve just gone through managers in recent years, but ETH is definitely deserving of the sack and keeping him is just doing more harm than good

I’m convinced that the first half of last season was just a fluke and new manager bounce as since that wore off, he’s shown he’s absolutely lost and has no ideas on how to fix anything

His substitutions are just mental, so bad. I almost prefer Ole’s approach of just not making any subs.

He’s totally out of his depth and has no clue on how to turn this around. We have no play style, he doesn’t know his best team, he has no tactical knowledge from what I can see or that shows on the pitch. He’s just bloody awful

You know little about football or our club if you believe this.

The manager cannot be without criticism but he took a worse team to 3rd and a trophy after a desperate season with OGS and Rangnick. His plans have been decimated with ridiculous pre-season tours, unprecedented injuries, petulant would be stars, accusations of domestic abuse and a takeover that has gone on for a year and we are no closer to knowing the outcome of. Against Fulham we played badly and won. Last night we played well for large parts of the match and lost. I'm not sure what else he could have done with subs last night. Martial for Hojlund? Like Tony has been tearing it up or works hard defensively? Most of the players had put a real shift in but we played with 10 men for 70 minutes in a very hostile atmosphere.

The key question is - who do you think could do a better job at this stage and why do you think that? Guardiola is not going to come and he has had 8 years to stamp his mark on one of the richest clubs in the world. You want Potter? Stick with ten Hag, get the players back fit, sort out the mess of ownership and continue the rebuild. There really is no other option that doesn't simply mean the cycle of the last ten years continues.

 

[Steedie]

You know little about football or our club if you believe this.

Classic OcUK style response this, don't agree with something so take a swipe at their knowledge about something

Sorry but last season, as mentioned, we were extremely lucky that the Carabao cup final is so early in the season. If it was a month or so later, we'd have lost it. After February, our form took an absolute nose dive, and we couldn't blame injuries then like we are now. We were extremely lucky to finish in the top 4, let alone 3rd, we should have had it wrapped up in early April but we had some ridiculous results and it meant we left ourselves sweating. We had the same issues the second half of last season that we're having now and ETH looked lost then but we gave him a pass because of what happened, but nothings changed

We did play very well up until the sending off last night, but it's FC Copenhagen, let's not kid ourselves. We should be beating these and comfortably.

In terms of subs, I would not be bringing Mount on full stop, he's struggled and gone missing in virtually every game he's played for us, and we absolutely did not need to risk a performance like that again. I get Hojlund off, don't risk a young player who's ran his socks off.

And in terms of there being no-one better...debatable. But does that mean you let a man who's totally lost just take us further down this aimless path we're on?

 

[sigma]

Last season Rashford also played out of his skin because his contract renewal was due. Now that's signed he's gone back to CBA mode. Other teams underperformed and then bought well in summer.

You could say this season Onana has cost us a lot of our losses. But then who brought him in?

Moyes wasn't ready
LvG way past it
Jose past it
Ralf, not really a manager any more, also too truthful
Ole not experienced enough (although in hindsight was he really that bad?)
ETH experienced winner, but still can't get results, dubious purchases

Meanwhile Glazers still there, player purchases still poor, commercials are great though.

Sack ETH sure but don't expect anything to change any time soon, we'll see a new manager bounce and then back to this **** again. None of the players (attitudes especially) are good enough, aging and injury prone also. And the club has no direction, Ratcliffe is just a red herring, happy to be proved wrong though.

 

[Steedie]

Just to add, if I could see any sort of style he's trying to drill in to the players, a sense of some form of direction or identity then I'd say "yeah ok, it's not working right now but I can see the foundations being laid for this type of football. Give it time to work", but there's nothing. 18 months and I could not tell you, ETH himself said it's a direct, possession based style of football, but...I can't even see that

 

[Calpol]

Classic OcUK style response this, don't agree with something so take a swipe at their knowledge about something

Sorry but last season, as mentioned, we were extremely lucky that the Carabao cup final is so early in the season. If it was a month or so later, we'd have lost it. After February, our form took an absolute nose dive, and we couldn't blame injuries then like we are now. We were extremely lucky to finish in the top 4, let alone 3rd, we should have had it wrapped up in early April but we had some ridiculous results and it meant we left ourselves sweating. We had the same issues the second half of last season that we're having now and ETH looked lost then but we gave him a pass because of what happened, but nothings changed

We did play very well up until the sending off last night, but it's FC Copenhagen, let's not kid ourselves. We should be beating these and comfortably.

In terms of subs, I would not be bringing Mount on full stop, he's struggled and gone missing in virtually every game he's played for us, and we absolutely did not need to risk a performance like that again. I get Hojlund off, don't risk a young player who's ran his socks off.

And in terms of there being no-one better...debatable. But does that mean you let a man who's totally lost just take us further down this aimless path we're on?

The problem I have with your post is that you offer no alternative plan. It's just another case of "this one is broken, get me a new manager". Last season, regardless of the calendar we out performed most other clubs. I remind you that City won the treble and only West Ham won anything of the rest. I agree it wasn't often pretty but it was enough to suggest that Erik ten Hag is not clueless. He handled the Ronaldo debacle well and gave us hope. Granted this season has been regression but with some major mitigating factors.

As for beating Copenhagen, we do not have a right to beat clubs based on past glories. We beat them at home and were all over them until the sending off. I've watched United for 35 years and we've often had tough nights away from home against supposedly lesser teams. If we are honest we are not at Top 32 CL level at present so it should not be a surprise.

Just to add, if I could see any sort of style he's trying to drill in to the players, a sense of some form of direction or identity then I'd say "yeah ok, it's not working right now but I can see the foundations being laid for this type of football. Give it time to work", but there's nothing. 18 months and I could not tell you, ETH himself said it's a direct, possession based style of football, but...I can't even see that

I share the frustration but I can see what he wants to do and we have seen glimpses. Unfortunately injuries and squad depth (maybe a few questionable signings) are precluding the full prosecution of his "style". Maguire and Evans cannot play out from the back. De Gea could not play out from the back. He's made AWB a better player but really he needs Martinez and one other at CB to facilitate that. We've seen moments of better pressing and the first 35 mins last night saw us win the ball countless times in the opposition half and that was with McTominay and Eriksen in midfield. Even Marcus was putting in a defensive shift until the red card. I was encouraged because it looked like the players were bought in. I'm viewing last night as unlucky. Let's see if we can make progress against Luton and take it from their.

 

[sigma]

Just to add, if I could see any sort of style he's trying to drill in to the players, a sense of some form of direction or identity then I'd say "yeah ok, it's not working right now but I can see the foundations being laid for this type of football. Give it time to work", but there's nothing. 18 months and I could not tell you, ETH himself said it's a direct, possession based style of football, but...I can't even see that

There was a clear style for parts of last season. Perhaps our dumb players are just not good enough.

 

[Steedie]

The problem I have with your post is that you offer no alternative plan. It's just another case of "this one is broken, get me a new manager". Last season, regardless of the calendar we out performed most other clubs. I remind you that City won the treble and only West Ham won anything of the rest. I agree it wasn't often pretty but it was enough to suggest that Erik ten Hag is not clueless. He handled the Ronaldo debacle well and gave us hope. Granted this season has been regression but with some major mitigating factors.

And I completely get that, but then in my defence and others calling for the same, we're just fans, people are paid stupid amounts of money to have a plan or have the means to know where to go when the current manager is dying on his arse. Admittedly our club is not run as it should be, so those people probably aren't there or aren't as good as they should be, but it's not my job to scout potential managers availability and willingness to join, if I could do that, I'd not be sat on my bum writing software for a living.

As for beating Copenhagen, we do not have a right to beat clubs based on past glories. We beat them at home and were all over them until the sending off. I've watched United for 35 years and we've often had tough nights away from home against supposedly lesser teams. If we are honest we are not at Top 32 CL level at present so it should not be a surprise.

Maybe my post was a bit strong in how I worded it, as you're right, we don't have any right to beat anyone. Teams have qualified for the CL on merit so they all deserve to be there, HOWEVER, the gulf in quality between the two leagues is ginormous and we absolutely should be beating teams like that. I was at the home game and wished I'd stayed at home to watch it, I couldn't believe how much we were being outplayed by them at home especially in the first half. To then go away and start the way we did is how I'd expect us to play against a team like that, but red card or not, we absolutely collapsed and it just felt like when we needed the manager to get a grip on the game, he didn't and doesn't know what to do. The bench was hardly full of options but tactically he could have changed something to tighten it up and just calm the players down a bit, but he just waits until its too late to do anything

 

[Fubsy]

One thing Man Utd teams have had for the past 20-30 years has been belief, even when they lost/went behind they bounced back or didn't stay in bad form for long.

This team, is one of the most devoid of belief teams that I can easily see us dropping like a stone if it isn't caught soon. The heads go down, the composure is lost, risks aren't taken, predictable patterns emerge and the pressure starts to show. It happens so quickly as well, and they aren't playing in a vacuum, this is elite level and the opponents smell blood and go for them hard.

 

[Converge]

Yeah, change the manager when the two constants that haven’t changed are the majority of the players and the club owners/majority of the hierarchy. What could possibly be more likely to be the actual problem, I wonder… The manager, of course!

What will it be, a desperate hope for 7th time lucky? Until the players get in a strop again? While the club continues on it’s neverending cycle of stupid contracts or stupid rash(ford) decision making?

ETH is the one thing that shouldn’t change for the foreseeable. If some of you guys can’t see that, I worry.

Get everything else resolved first, then move on the manager if things don’t improve.

 

[JRS]

The problem I have with your post is that you offer no alternative plan. It's just another case of "this one is broken, get me a new manager".

Yeah, change the manager when the two constants that haven’t changed are the majority of the players and the club owners/majority of the hierarchy. What could possibly be more likely to be the actual problem, I wonder… The manager, of course!

What will it be, a desperate hope for 7th time lucky? Until the players get in a strop again? While the club continues on it’s neverending cycle of stupid contracts or stupid rash(ford) decisions making?

ETH is the one thing that shouldn’t change for the foreseeable. If some of you guys can’t see that, I worry.

Get everything else resolved first, then move on the manager if things don’t improve.

This is it though, isn't it? The problem with modern football laid bare

First Van Gaal was the answer to the Moyes problem. Then Mourinho was the answer to the Van Gaal problem. Then OGS was the answer to the Mourinho problem. Then ten Hag was the answer to the OGS problem. And now you all know how Liverpool felt, ten years into their 'not winning the league title' stretch.

Get rid of the manager, you get a bit of a bounce, but you're still not winning anything of note and haven't been for far too long. The club needs rebuilding, from the owners down. Years of the new manager bounce let the club claim that everything was fine, nothing drastic needed to happen. Well, everything is very much not fine.

 

[shipinabottle]

Yeah, change the manager when the two constants that haven’t changed are the majority of the players and the club owners/majority of the hierarchy. What could possibly be more likely to be the actual problem, I wonder… The manager, of course!

What will it be, a desperate hope for 7th time lucky? Until the players get in a strop again? While the club continues on it’s neverending cycle of stupid contracts or stupid rash(ford) decision making?

ETH is the one thing that shouldn’t change for the foreseeable. If some of you guys can’t see that, I worry.

Get everything else resolved first, then move on the manager if things don’t improve.

This is it though, isn't it? The problem with modern football laid bare

First Van Gaal was the answer to the Moyes problem. Then Mourinho was the answer to the Van Gaal problem. Then OGS was the answer to the Mourinho problem. Then ten Hag was the answer to the OGS problem. And now you all know how Liverpool felt, ten years into their 'not winning the league title' stretch.

Get rid of the manager, you get a bit of a bounce, but you're still not winning anything of note and haven't been for far too long. The club needs rebuilding, from the owners down. Years of the new manager bounce let the club claim that everything was fine, nothing drastic needed to happen. Well, everything is very much not fine.

This is the crux - the fans (opposing or completely delusional united ones), the media and the majority of this forum want the easy ponit of blame. It's much easier to target an individual... but the problem is we have a squad of players who have existed across managers and remain the problem. They are inconsistent, with poor discipline and at times work ethic due to this. A manager can bring out the best in stuttering talents but the reality is...

Rashford
Martial
Lindelof
Maquire
Dalot
Shaw
McTominay
Fred
AWB (I know he's performing a bit better but he's still not good enough and just better than Dalot defensively)
Bruno - Possibly rescuable but his emotions are all over the shop which means he's a liability/inconsistent

All don't belong in a top team and wouldn't get into any other top starting 11 or arguebly even a bench IMO. Stop looking at the fees paid and their ages as evidence for value or comapring to other teams players. I can buy a kit kat for £10, it doesn't mean it's worth a tenner, it means I'm either desperate or completely careless with my money.

They need removing but wages/contracts and the gravy train prevent this. That's the operating side of the clubs fault. Not a manager who's been handed a **** sandwich and told you can only replace a few elements (of a 20 piece samich) every year... Expecting that to be a short process of 1 year is completely delusional from anyone. And that's without taking account injuries, ownership, personalities and outside problems.

ETH hasn't had the opportunity due to a lot of circumstances, to remotely set about developing a true squad to represent his ideals. That doesn't mean he hasn't made mistakes, but his mistakes are not remotely the largest factor for the results. Having a starting 11 every week that largely involves the above is the reason for the results, ups and down and turmoil.

Football isn't as simple as people like to envision it