EV general discussion

VW seem to be quite vocal on EV matters, they sound quite negative. Shame didn’t put as much effort in when creating their EV offerings but to be fair they do have a point. I like the fact I have a choice of BEV , PHEV or ICE at my company.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

Fleets warned over electric vehicle-only policies

Employers need to be wary of introducing company car policies which only allow employees to choose electric vehicles.
www.fleetnews.co.uk www.fleetnews.co.uk
 
Tinders said:
VW seem to be quite vocal on EV matters, they sound quite negative. Shame didn’t put as much effort in when creating their EV offerings but to be fair they do have a point. I like the fact I have a choice of BEV , PHEV or ICE at my company.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

Fleets warned over electric vehicle-only policies

Employers need to be wary of introducing company car policies which only allow employees to choose electric vehicles.
www.fleetnews.co.uk www.fleetnews.co.uk
Click to expand...

Sounds to me more like VWFS are worried about their bottom line, than a bunch of company car users be narked off at the choice of EV only. Guess that they are getting fed up of Tesla eating some of their lunch, and now with BMW having great offerings VWFS are lobbying to stop the transition as they are ill prepared which is ironic given how successful a follow up to the e-Golf could have been.
 
Combat squirrel said:
I'll consider electric cars when the cars go fully disconnected from the net - I really dislike the control manufactures have to disable vehicles at will (as has happened in America numerous times with Tesla vehicles) - its an absolute breach of freedom, a vehicle isn't a commodity in which anyone but you can decide if you can drive it or not - as far as I a concerned its an item that extends the human right of freedom of movement - of which that right has been under constant attack from the right for years now.

However I doubt any future vehicle would ever be off grid - so I'll have to stick to my older school diesels for now, which I'll drive to the bitter end until it becomes unviable.
Click to expand...
some features are able to be turned off, and you can choose to have security on your car to allow your car to be disabled if stolen with some cars. but do you have a source that all EVs are disableable at the will of the manufacturer because that sounds like some grade A tinfoil hattery to me.
if any can it would not surprise me if Tesla can...... but ALL EVs?
 
Journey said:
Sounds to me more like VWFS are worried about their bottom line, than a bunch of company car users be narked off at the choice of EV only. Guess that they are getting fed up of Tesla eating some of their lunch, and now with BMW having great offerings VWFS are lobbying to stop the transition as they are ill prepared which is ironic given how successful a follow up to the e-Golf could have been.
Click to expand...
isn't the ID3 essentially an egolf? (spoken as someone who hasn't been in an ID3 , just going on styling outside and the size
 
EddScott said:
I always intended to buy my 2nd hand I Pace. I did the finance thing for the offer then paid it off early.

Have had a few friends scoff having bought rather than lease and it may well become an expensive ornament once the battery warranty expires (Mines an OV70)

However, I've had a small win as I have two rental properties I've decided to let go. Buy selling the IPace to my company and then giving the money back as a loan, I can use that as income for 24/25. I should then only pay the lower rate of CGT on the house sales.

On that basis, it's worked out quite well to buy outright. For now anyway.
Click to expand...
I've got a feeling my next car could be an I pace. Massive depreciation means it's in my price range, fast as hell and the range would just about be enough for what I'd need.

The only issue is the massive repair bills when things go wrong! Although you can get the official JLR warranty in some cases which I think I'd have to go for!
 
Nemiyen said:
I've got a feeling my next car could be an I pace. Massive depreciation means it's in my price range, fast as hell and the range would just about be enough for what I'd need.

The only issue is the massive repair bills when things go wrong! Although you can get the official JLR warranty in some cases which I think I'd have to go for!
Click to expand...
I love my ipace. it's not perfect but for me it fits into my life style and so what if it takes 50 mins to charge to 80% at a service station..just enough time for a wee and a burger. tho the fact that is only a 4 or 6 times a year issue (2 orb3 trips) tops it's not a concern
my extended warranty cost £570 which I felt was worth it for piece of mind. if you buy a JLR official one you get 2 years warranty and free charge point install iirc
 
Last edited:
bigmike20vt said:
isn't the ID3 essentially an egolf? (spoken as someone who hasn't been in an ID3 , just going on styling outside and the size
Click to expand...
No, it’s a completely different car but in the same segment. You’ve literally just proved the point I made a few days ago about the ID3.

To be fair to the ID cars and the wider MEB platform isn’t even bad, it’s just other manufacturers have done a better job at the price points that VW like to operate in (Tesla, Hyundai/Kia). It’s not really best in class at anything and that’s a problem. When compared to Stellantis, MEB holds up really well except on price.

VW are in no man’s land, they’ve got these fairly generic (bland) cars that don’t have and brand recognition. They are too expensive (IMO) for what they offer but they can’t reduce the price because that will cheapen the brand.

There is also the issue that the MEB cars from the ‘lesser’ VW group brands are better received than the VW ones.

I said just a few days ago that they should have just made a new E-Golf on MEB and called it the E-Golf.

I’m also not sure where their brand strategy is going. They’ve seeming now have 4 brands competing for the exact same customers (VW, Skoda, Seat and Cupra). Their products are very similar these days, some are basically identical.

It seems to be a just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks approach.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I love my ipace. it's not perfect but for me it fits into my life style and so what if it takes 50 mins to charge to 80% at a service station..just enough time for a wee and a burger. tho the fact that is only a 4 or 6 times a year issue (2 orb3 trips) tops it's not a concern
my extended warranty cost £570 which I felt was worth it for piece of mind. if you buy a JLR official one you get 2 years warranty and free charge point install iirc
Click to expand...
My initial plan was to get a 2020 one as they're the cheapest with most issues resolved. But, I'd have to pay to get an inspection to get the warranty, which could be a costly mistake if it fails!

Now I'm looking at 2021 models with a few months warranty left so I'll have no issues (or less!) getting the extended warranty.

I think we'd keep an ice car for any journies where stopping might be required so charging anywhere other than home or work wouldn't be in my plans.

I didn't realise the extended warranty could get a charge point installed but I'm guessing that's when buying from an approved jag seller (with their extra costs) and not the cheap(er) ones I'm looking at! :D
 
Thought ID3 were showing better residual than average - customer sees MEB platform wrapped in golf like clothes, a practical hatch ,
with the luxury of a dealership network too, unlike the chinese contenders.
the design is not so anonymous, not up there with the i3, or ipace, but above average.
vw sorting out the pricing and economics with their own motor+control electronics and giga-castings - following the tesla lead.

hopefully they can hurry up and re-package the id7 in its it's skoda octavia persona.

e: vw inherited dcc too and dynamic dampers is a good edge too, for heavier ev ride/handling
 
Last edited:
Nemiyen said:
My initial plan was to get a 2020 one as they're the cheapest with most issues resolved. But, I'd have to pay to get an inspection to get the warranty, which could be a costly mistake if it fails!

Now I'm looking at 2021 models with a few months warranty left so I'll have no issues (or less!) getting the extended warranty.

I think we'd keep an ice car for any journies where stopping might be required so charging anywhere other than home or work wouldn't be in my plans.

I didn't realise the extended warranty could get a charge point installed but I'm guessing that's when buying from an approved jag seller (with their extra costs) and not the cheap(er) ones I'm looking at! :D
Click to expand...
I understand the concern about long journeys but plenty of us have done European road trips in our I-Paces and totally fine :)

It's a good point about the warranty, as long as you have a bit left taking out the warranty won't need any checks. There are MY21 2021 cars which have everything, later 2021 (MY22) cars I think lost HUD and 360 cameras so be slightly careful about it
 
gigacast and structural battery pack and in the future monocoque shell and pack would certainly make production cheaper and more efficient ie less weight to lug around.

But all that would mean repair cost would be high or nigh on impossible for your local mechanic. It will create a monopoly and make products hugely anti-consumer. Like Apple.

If there is structural damage to the frame then you can’t just bend it back or cut a section out and weld it again as it is a cast frame.

Similarly for the battery pack. Structural battery pack will mean the car may have to be temporarily strutted?

Whilst economy and cost effectiveness is one thing. Producing a product that is not readily repairable is not a good way forward.

Car industry has evolved over 100years and its current derivation of mass produced car are cost effective for that very reason - small and cheap and readily available and replaceable parts make ownership universal.

Otherwise we will all be starring ownership cost of a Chiron or McLaren F1.
 
Last edited:
pc-guy said:
gigacast and structural battery pack and in the future monolithic shell and pack would certainly make production cheaper and more efficient ie less weight to lug around.

But all that would mean repair cost would be high or nigh on impossible for your local mechanic. It will create a monopoly and make products hugely anti-consumer. Like Apple.

If there is structural damage to the frame then you can’t just bend it back or cut a section out and weld it again as it is a cast frame.
Click to expand...

The reality is, if the collection of parts welded together which make up the section of the car being replaced by the large case piece is damaged in an accident, the car is highly likely to be written off anyway, casting or not. The reality is an insurance approved 'back to factory' repair just isn't cost effective. For that part of the car to be damaged, the reast of the car around it will be a crumpled mess because it is designed to do that in a collision.

The cost of the disassembly, parts, labour, reassembly and hire car costs tend to be greater than the insurance playout less the salvage value. It really doesn't take much to write off a car these days, the damage can be non-structural on a relatively expensive car and it can still be a write off.



pc-guy said:
Similarly for the battery pack. Structural battery pack will mean the car may have to be temporarily strutted?
Click to expand...

The battery can be removed from the car and it can support itself as needed. I'm not sure where you are going there?

pc-guy said:
Whilst economy and cost effectiveness is one thing. Producing a product that is not readily repairable is not a good way forward.

Car industry has evolved over 100years and its current derivation of mass produced car are cost effective for that very reason - small and cheap and readily available and replaceable parts make ownership universal.

Otherwise we will all be starring ownership cost of a Chiron or McLaren F1.
Click to expand...

Cars are so much more complex now and they are not built like they were 'back in the day' for crash protection and pedestrian safety reasons. New cars crumple in a collision and outside of a light 'fender bender' are not economically repairable. The general consensus is people would prefer the car break into 10,000 pieces and they walk away than to be taken away in a body bag. It is what it is and this has been the direction of travel for a very long time and what manufactures are doing very recently with single piece castings isn't really changing that because crashed cars with structural damage are already salvaged rather than repaired.
 
Last edited:
All batteries are structural. Tesla just recently have filled it with glue and move the cells further from the sills to allow deformation to the usual occupant torso/pelvic regions as per human protection rather than more demanding cell intrusion. The lack of metal structure in the battery this compromise I have to repeat this every 3 months or so…


jpaul said:
e: vw inherited dcc too and dynamic dampers is a good edge too, for heavier ev ride/handling
Click to expand...

Are you still going on about that as they it’s exclusive? How is something exclusion when a) it’s “inherited” b) it’s not unique.
 
Last edited:
Nemiyen said:
My initial plan was to get a 2020 one as they're the cheapest with most issues resolved. But, I'd have to pay to get an inspection to get the warranty, which could be a costly mistake if it fails!

Now I'm looking at 2021 models with a few months warranty left so I'll have no issues (or less!) getting the extended warranty.

I think we'd keep an ice car for any journies where stopping might be required so charging anywhere other than home or work wouldn't be in my plans.

I didn't realise the extended warranty could get a charge point installed but I'm guessing that's when buying from an approved jag seller (with their extra costs) and not the cheap(er) ones I'm looking at! :D
Click to expand...
it's not the warranty that gets the charge point it's the jaguar approved. do check out main dealers. after you factor in 2 year warranty and charge point (if deal is still on) it's not much of a premium.
do make sure it's a MY21 (so late 2020 onwards) car.
it has pivi pro onboard computer, 11kw charging and most importantly one of the 12v batteries which is the an expensive replacement has been gotten rid off. looking at auto trader £26.5k will get you a HSE spec MY21. personally I would not risk a super cheap older one but that is just me.

you can easily tell if it's the right model if it has 40/20/40 split rear seats and not 60/40 (I noticed some sellers "accidentally" confuse the specs of older cars
 
Last edited:
Tell tale between 20MY and the revised 21MY from outside is the door jaguar graphic. Initially a flat in moulded hologram graphic 21MY has 3D proper JAGUAR letters on the door.

Incredible things in this weather, still grip like a limpet. I’ve ordered a 400 SPORT so keen to see what the adaptive dynamics ( Bilstein CVD dampers) brings to the table.
 
jpaul said:
Thought ID3 were showing better residual than average - customer sees MEB platform wrapped in golf like clothes, a practical hatch ,
with the luxury of a dealership network too, unlike the chinese contenders.
the design is not so anonymous, not up there with the i3, or ipace, but above average.
vw sorting out the pricing and economics with their own motor+control electronics and giga-castings - following the tesla lead.

hopefully they can hurry up and re-package the id7 in its it's skoda octavia persona.

e: vw inherited dcc too and dynamic dampers is a good edge too, for heavier ev ride/handling
Click to expand...

There was a sweet spot with the ID.3, back in 2021, post grants, they dropped RRP's, had dealer and VW finance contributions and low rate finance.. Not to mention they had more variants, so the 'Max' (as we got) had everything thrown in, DCC, pan roof, travel assist, massage seats, etc.. this meant residuals based on those prices aren't too bad..

As you say, the platform is actually quite respectable, the efficiency is good, and despite the woeful interior materials, I have to say, I wanted to hate it, but like you see in many reviews, when you drive it, it just feels a step up in refinement in all aspects.. ours with DCC is exceptional on rough surfaces at low speed and the drivetrain is smooth , in the end it just won me over as a small family car and with the price being right at the time, thought it was a great 'first' proper BEV to go alongside my M3.

But you are right, for obvious reasons, there are people that just see VW as an entry level German brand and are this mid-tier aspirational offering that on paper makes no sense what-so-ever.. I really don't like most of their offerings and prefer their sister company offerings, the Kodiaq to me was a way nicer place to be than the overpriced Tiguan, and the Cupra Born is much nicer inside than an ID.3.. Not that it matters, people shy away from MG/BYD etc because they are Chinese and don't have the right reputation (yet)..

I'm just transferring the reg off our ID.3 Max and will probably sell it, even if I throw it at Cazoo, It will have depreciated £13k in 2.5 years and actually hasn't been too bad financially, the amortised monthly cost has been £360 and we have some equity in the car still.. I could keep it and have two BEVs, but I really want a convertible or just something different as a second occasional car.
 
Demon said:
.. I could keep it and have two BEVs, but I really want a convertible or just something different as a second occasional car.
Click to expand...
MG Cyberster? you will have to wait a few more months however. Obviously it depends if a 2 seater can work for you. I miss my 350z but with a child it just wasn't practical enough even as a 2nd car for us (I could likely make it work now as it happens now he is a bit older)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom