Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Roar87 said:
I don't think they were terrorists though since there were essentially just two sets of terrorists fighting each other, it's just one was on the side of Kyiv and the other wanted to be independent and govern themselves because they don't want to join the EU and consider themselves closer to Russia. Why would I care about Nazis on a side that my country isn't backing? It's like saying Russia is bad, yeah I agree, but we're not on their side.

video.vice.com

How Ukraine became a cultural hub for the extreme right

The war in Ukraine was a magnet for far-right radicals from around the world. Fighting on both sides, they gained combat experience and deep links with other extremists
video.vice.com video.vice.com

It's nice documentaries like this are still available to view online.
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They aren't terrorists, but both sides are terrorists ? OK, think about that logic some more.

I'm glad you admit you don't really care about Nazis, it's just some self-righteousness to try to justify your side The fact the RNUs fingerprints among others runs deep in the DPR and LPR, they are just your sort of freedom fighters right…
 
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Sythe79 said:
They aren't terrorists, but both sides are terrorists ? OK, think about that logic some more.

I'm glad you admit you don't really care about Nazis, it's just some self-righteousness to try to justify your side The fact the RNUs fingerprints among others runs deep in the DPR and LPR, they are just your sort of freedom fighters right…
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Both sides have terrorists. Being a separatist alone doesn't make you a terrorist. Hope that's cleared up.
 
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Roar87 said:
Both sides have terrorists. Being a separatist alone doesn't make you a terrorist. Hope that's cleared up.
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taking up arms against the legitimate government of a country for political reasons is pretty much the definition of a terrorist, only one side has done that. Only one side has proven links to outside groups that are full-blown idealogical Nazis AND seem proud of the fact… wait, I'm sure the CIA really made them do it right.
 
ubersonic said:
Because if somebody posts lies/misinformation/mistruths/etc and nobody challenges/corrects it then it stands there uncorrected and is there for anyone to find by searching Google or the forum (or simply browsing the thread), and failure to challenge misinformation has become one of the main ways that misinformation spreads online.
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We need community notes under authors posts that reflect that they're usually Russian bots and to take whatever they post with a kilo of salt :cry:
 
Sythe79 said:
taking up arms against the legitimate government of a country for political reasons is pretty much the definition of a terrorist
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I think they're a legitimate government to most of the country, but if you happen to support the pro Russian President who was overthrown in a revolution then you might understandably not consider it a legitimate government. At that point paying Nazi groups like the Azov Brigade to fight these people probably isn't the best solution. Is any of what I just said factually incorrect by the way?

Sythe79 said:
only one side has done that. Only one side has proven links to outside groups that are full-blown idealogical Nazis AND seem proud of the fact… wait, I'm sure the CIA really made them do it right.
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I think the Azov Brigade is/was definitely a full blown ideologically Nazi group. This is documented, I've linked several documentaries showing that. I think without a doubt the Russian and separatist side also had far right members, I don't think we should've been backing either side and by doing so we've given Putin plenty of fuel for anti Western propaganda, which helped him internally justify the invasion.
 
Roar87 said:
Being a separatist alone doesn't make you a terrorist. Hope that's cleared up.
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What about taking up arms against your government, fighting your countries army, terrorising civilians, taking money/weapons/etc from a foreign power in order to help them operate a proxy war against your own country, and breaking into government military bases stealing BUKs and shooting down aeroplanes.

Any of that make you a terrorist? :P
 
History is littered with conflicts where "alliances" of convenience backfire a few years down the road.
Look at the Taliban and countless other mujahideens. Western money builds them up, they fight, eventually "win" then turn around to bite you back.
I 100% agree with roar87, Ukraines post separation from the USSR was ten years of bickering infighting corruption a war for influence by both west and russian and basically "getting their **** in order." Then in 2014 it all kicks off for real and any anti Russian/pro ukrainian force is pulled in to fight and defend. All kinds of lunatics/nazis/fringe reddit types.

Ukraine got its act together "borders" were drawn with pro russian areas that left and "wanted" to be russian (**** knows why???) , the rest allies looking westward at big USA money starbucks and EU membership..Hunter biden,...

after years of stalemate Putin decides to copycat Wests ideas of pacifying areas and defending its loyal citizens from evil Nazis... Obviously its all a joke and a land grab built on BS and an idea on a perceived NATO expansion threat. Whatever justifies it.... There's a **** load of oil there too... They invade (get owned) and now its an horrific stalemate with drip fed western money and 2nd hand weapons.....

No?

Russia still crossed the line and must be booted (destroyed) out, but theirs not a thing in their psyche that tells them they are doing the wrong thing...
 
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ubersonic said:
What about taking up arms against your government, fighting your countries army
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The Euro maiden protestors did exactly this. They were called revolutionaries/freedom fighters, etc.

ubersonic said:
terrorising civilians, taking money/weapons/etc from a foreign power in order to help them operate a proxy war
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Both sides did this.

ubersonic said:
breaking into government military bases stealing BUKs and shooting down aeroplanes.
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This definitely does make you a terrorist and the people who did this should be in jail.

ubersonic said:
Any of that make you a terrorist? :p
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Probably only shooting down a civilian airliner out of that.
 
name the battles that the euro maiden fighters took part in how many Kia on either side, I'm sure you have a map of the land they annexed.... really don't reach too far mentally, you might fall off.
 
Efour said:
History is littered with conflicts where "alliances" of convenience backfire a few years down the road.
Look at the Taliban and countless other mujahideens. Western money builds them up, they fight, eventually "win" then turn around to bite you back.
I 100% agree with roar87, Ukraines post separation from the USSR was ten years of bickering infighting corruption a war for influence by both west and russian and basically "getting their **** in order." Then in 2014 it all kicks off for real and any anti Russian/pro ukrainian force is pulled in to fight and defend. All kinds of lunatics/nazis/fringe reddit types.

Ukraine got its act together "borders" were drawn with pro russian areas that left and "wanted" to be russian (**** knows why???) , the rest allies looking westward at big USA money starbucks and EU membership..Hunter biden,...

after years of stalemate Putin decides to copycat Wests ideas of pacifying areas and defending its loyal citizens from evil Nazis... Obviously its all a joke and a land grab built on BS and an idea on a perceived NATO expansion threat. Whatever justifies it.... There's a **** load of oil there too... They invade (get owned) and now its an horrific stalemate with drip fed western money and 2nd hand weapons.....

No?

Russia still crossed the line and must be booted (destroyed) out, but theirs not a thing in their psyche that tells them they are doing the wrong thing...
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I agree with most of this, I would reiterate for the 20th time Russia crossed a line and should not have invaded.

What I would say is that I don't think it's possible to boot them out at this point and we're basically just throwing lives away for a piece of land that will inevitably not be part of Ukraine again.
 
Sythe79 said:
name the battles that the euro maiden fighters took part in how many Kia on either side, I'm sure you have a map of the land they annexed.... really don't reach too far mentally, you might fall off.
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euromaidanpr.wordpress.com

The Council of Maidan Self-Defense Organizes “United Revolutionary Army” throughout Ukraine

The Council of Maidan Self-Defense approved the decision to create and expand the Ukrainian Self-Defense League throughout the nation. The newly founded organization, coordinated by the National Re…
euromaidanpr.wordpress.com euromaidanpr.wordpress.com

https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/25255305.html You can fast forward the video to see they "took up arms".

So again I have to dig through all this complex history to find the Ukrainian Self-Defense League which fought against the at the time legitimate government. This could have been called a terrorist group by the previous administration.
 
Efour said:
Lol he's only talking history... Why you so scared of him this time? I'm doing pulled pork today :p
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Scared? Russian bot with nothing of value to say, he's been debunked a lot of times on this thread yet continues to push the kremlin narratives, I have on ignore but am forced to watch all of the replies to the obvious nonsense (with yet more people pointing out how wrong he is).
 
Roar87 said:
I think they're a legitimate government to most of the country, but if you happen to support the pro Russian President who was overthrown in a revolution then you might understandably not consider it a legitimate government.
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As it's almost a decade now since this thread started I think we should have a quick recap oh how this all started in order to nip any revisionism in the bud.

  • Ukraine elected a pro-EU president who would move towards a closer partnership with the EU.
  • When it came time to start finalising/signing agreements with the EU the pro-EU president decided he was now pro-Russia instead so wouldn't be signing anything.
  • The Ukrainian people got mad and protested.
  • The now pro-Russian president had some of them shot.
  • The Ukrainian people got a lot more mad and rioted.
  • The now pro-Russian president fled Kiev.
  • The Ukrainian government fired the now pro-Russian president.
  • The now pro-Russian president fled to Russia.
  • Russia used the confusion to annex the Crimean peninsula using troops stationed there plus unmarked troops "on holiday".
  • Russia used the confusion to send unmarked troops "on holiday" to Donetsk and Luhansk, meeting up with local Russian immigrants and pro-Russian Ukrainians and starting a "separatist" movement.
  • Once Ukraine got it's act together the "separatists" started getting facerolled by the Ukrainian military.
  • Russia sent tanks, artillery and anti aircraft systems to back up their forces and proxies in the east, claiming all the time they were Ukrainians using their own equipment (this was completely debunked due to those forces using open radio communications and possessing weapons systems never exported to Ukraine).
  • Either Russian operatives or Pro Russian "separatists" accidentally shot down a commercial airliner, thus drawing massive international attention to the conflict and making Russia's open support of their proxies and sympathisers in Donetsk/Luhansk untenable.
  • A ceasefire would be agreed as Russia could no longer openly send the troops/weapons required to hold ground and Ukraine lacked the ability to defeat their forces outright.

And that's where things stayed for five plus years while Ukraine rapidly rearmed itself to defend against a possible invasion and Russia squandered the time building more one of prototypes that looked cool but were still 30 years behind the west.
 
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