Relocation to Spain Experience

[Tram]

it's the red pill - wake up, open shutters see the Med, ? beach, mountains, dip after work... ; different reality to a vacation, which aren't needed anymore.

I am looking forward to it. I believe that having an affordable home that's is affordable reduces the need to seek high pay employment. When I look at house prices in the UK, I really feel for those just starting in life. I really believe wages in the UK are far to low to have any decent life.
Spain has been developing pretty well with good level of growth and balance between work and leisure.

 

[That Jekka Gal]

I am going the other way, I hope it will be fine. IAM going to the consulate next week to make sure I have everything in order before I apply. It is going to cost me a fortune to get my education equivalent document for Spain. 160 euros for each document, probably going to cost me up to 1000€.

I feel sad that in a way that I am leaving the UK. But I feel that everything in this country does not work and it is a shame this country has been ruined over the last 14years. I just don't want to wait any longer, I feel it is going to take decades to repair the damage.
The country is in economic decline, and too many people have taken advantage and assisted in the downfall of this country.

I really feel that many will be in rentals for the rest of their lives while IHT will strip people of any hope having a home.
Also the attack on the disabled and the poverty welfare system which pays out nothing. The complete failed NHS. High taxation, including new ways to strip people from there earnings and etc...

The income tax banding has not kept up with inflation for many years, wages are pretty awful now.

I also feel sorry for some of the good people in this country but life is too short.
Plus there is a shortage of our skill in this country.

Yes, all of that.

The main thing for me, as a IT contractor, has just been the state of the market since Covid. It’s been truly dire - I’ve been lucky to work 6 months out of every 12.

It’s a combination of the new off payroll rules, the state of the economy and the lion’s share of the work going to the big consultancies. It’s not just that the work is going offshore either - tens of thousands are coming in from overseas each year, primarily from India, to fill vacancies.

I’m sure it’s no coincidence that this influx went through the roof when we had a PM whose wife is the daughter of the CEO of the biggest IT consultancy in the world.

Basically, we’re being asset stripped and nothing’s going to change until we have a government prepared to perform a complete volte face and I just can’t see that happening anytime soon.

 

[Tram]

Yes, all of that.

The main thing for me, as a IT contractor, has just been the state of the market since Covid. It’s been truly dire - I’ve been lucky to work 6 months out of every 12.

It’s a combination of the new off payroll rules, the state of the economy and the lion’s share of the work going to the big consultancies. It’s not just that the work is going offshore either - tens of thousands are coming in from overseas each year, primarily from India, to fill vacancies.

I’m sure it’s no coincidence that this influx went through the roof when we had a PM whose wife is the daughter of the CEO of the biggest IT consultancy in the world.

Basically, we’re being asset stripped and nothing’s going to change until we have a government prepared to perform a complete volte face and I just can’t see that happening anytime soon.

I believe governments have fail to transforming the education system in the UK.
They were more interest getting you to take out a learner loan.
I remember when I graduated and was unemployed. The jobcentre sent me on a 3 month course, It was a complete failure, it wasn't even worth doing. I just wasted time.

I had to pay for everything, when earlier it was free and based on ability to pass the education levels.

 

[That Jekka Gal]

I believe governments have fail to transforming the education system in the UK.
They were more interest getting you to take out a learner loan.
I remember when I graduated and was unemployed. The jobcentre sent me on a 3 month course, It was a complete failure, it wasn't even worth doing. I just wasted time.

I had to pay for everything, when earlier it was free and based on ability to pass the education levels.

I was on the tail end of free university education; graduated in 1990.

Just in time for the big recession & didn’t find a career type job. So, I managed to get on the Employment Training scheme (ET - colloquially known as Extra Tenner) where you could do training and get £10pw on top of your giro. Turned out I could get on the M.Sc in computing (for non computing graduates) & after completing it, I didn’t ever look back.

Same for the other people on the course who were all long term unemployed graduates.

I think it was about the only time I wrote a letter to an MP and I conveyed my thanks for this scheme which kickstarted the careers of myself and countless others.

Suffice to say, when Labour got in 2 years later, the scheme was promptly scrapped.

 

[Tram]

I was on the tail end of free university education; graduated in 1990.

Just in time for the big recession & didn’t find a career type job. So, I managed to get on the Employment Training scheme (ET - colloquially known as Extra Tenner) where you could do training and get £10pw on top of your giro. Turned out I could get on the M.Sc in computing (for non computing graduates) & after completing it, I didn’t ever look back.

Same for the other people on the course who were all long term unemployed graduates.

I think it was about the only time I wrote a letter to an MP and I conveyed my thanks for this scheme which kickstarted the careers of myself and countless others.

Suffice to say, when Labour got in 2 years later, the scheme was promptly scrapped.

You were very lucky to get that, sometimes I wonder if the Tories are more friendly to the working class than labour.
This is why I don't care for this country. The way they treat their own citizens over the last few years has been nasty
.

 

[Mr Badger]

You were very lucky to get that, sometimes I wonder if the Tories are more friendly to the working class than labour.
This is why I don't care for this country. The way they treat their own citizens over the last few years has been nasty
.

Best Start - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

"In February 2020, the reviewed report has shown that 1300 centres have been closed during the last 10 years, meaning more than one in three Sure Start centres were axed under the Conservatives. The cuts have seen 1,292 of the family centres shut since 2010. At their peak in 2009/10, there were 3,600 centres. The austerity reduced numbers by up to 85 per cent in some areas. In Staffordshire, 46 of 54 centres shut, while Oxfordshire lost 37 of its 45 centres."

 

[That Jekka Gal]

You were very lucky to get that, sometimes I wonder if the Tories are more friendly to the working class than labour.
This is why I don't care for this country. The way they treat their own citizens over the last few years has been nasty
.

Yes, there was also the Enterprise Allowance Scheme set up by the Thatcher govt.

I think it’s true, up to a point, that the Tories of old helped you to help yourself.

Not sure when that scheme was scrapped - it was still going in the early noughties as I looked into it myself.

 

[Tram]

Best Start - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

"In February 2020, the reviewed report has shown that 1300 centres have been closed during the last 10 years, meaning more than one in three Sure Start centres were axed under the Conservatives. The cuts have seen 1,292 of the family centres shut since 2010. At their peak in 2009/10, there were 3,600 centres. The austerity reduced numbers by up to 85 per cent in some areas. In Staffordshire, 46 of 54 centres shut, while Oxfordshire lost 37 of its 45 centres."

i don't think Cameron was a Tory. And yes I disliked Cameron for what he did to this country. All the others that followed contributed to the mess this country is in.

I completely disagree with labour policies on RTB, RTB gave working class hope to buy properties, RTB allowed people to get mortgages they would not have gotten if they were in the private sector.
The idea was good, but the money was not used to replace the sold properties and I blamed the councils for that.

People don't understand that the council properties were leasehold and eventually would return back to the council. This would reduce building costs and the upkeep costs would be placed onto the leasehold owner.
The public fell for the hype, propaganda from housing associations and private investors.

This labour have taken away RTB and have pushed out rentals . This would allow companies to purchase properties, rent them out pushing up prices.

I don't hear about returning council properties that were given to housing associations in the late 80s and 90s. Most of the housing association stock are transferred council properties. The contract was housing associations would keep them in good condition which they haven't. They are just racking in the rents, what really annoys me these housing associations have been controlled and owned by equity companies etc. when you look deeper into who really owns them.

 

[Mr Badger]

i don't think Cameron was a Tory. And yes I disliked Cameron for what he did to this country. All the others that followed contributed to the mess this country is in.

I completely disagree with labour policies on RTB, RTB gave working class hope to buy properties, RTB allowed people to get mortgages they would not have gotten if they were in the private sector.
The idea was good, but the money was not used to replace the sold properties and I blamed the councils for that.

People don't understand that the council properties were leasehold and eventually would return back to the council. This would reduce building costs and the upkeep costs would be placed onto the leasehold owner.
The public fell for the hype, propaganda from housing associations and private investors.

This labour have taken away RTB and have pushed out rentals . This would allow companies to purchase properties, rent them out pushing up prices.

I don't hear about returning council properties that were given to housing associations in the late 80s and 90s. Most of the housing association stock are transferred council properties. The contract was housing associations would keep them in good condition which they haven't. They are just racking in the rents, what really annoys me these housing associations have been controlled and owned by equity companies etc. when you look deeper into who really owns them.

You're blaming local councils for not using the money to replace the homes that they were obliged to sell at knock down prices, rather than Tory government rules that blocked them from doing so?

Right to Buy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The policy became one of the major points of Thatcherism.

The policy proved immediately popular. Some local Labour-controlled councils were opposed, but the legislation prevented them from blocking purchases and enabled them to redeem debt. Sales were much higher in the south and east of England than in inner London and northern England. Sales were restricted to general-needs housing; adapted properties and those built specifically for older people were exempted from the scheme.

Half the proceeds of the sales were paid to the local authorities, but the government restricted authorities' use of most of the money to reducing their debt until it was cleared rather than spending it on building more homes. The effect was to reduce the council housing stock, especially in areas where property prices were high, such as London and the south-east of England."

 

[Tram]

You're blaming local councils for not using the money to replace the homes that they were obliged to sell at knock down prices, rather than Tory government rules that blocked them from doing so?

Right to Buy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The policy became one of the major points of Thatcherism.

The policy proved immediately popular. Some local Labour-controlled councils were opposed, but the legislation prevented them from blocking purchases and enabled them to redeem debt. Sales were much higher in the south and east of England than in inner London and northern England. Sales were restricted to general-needs housing; adapted properties and those built specifically for older people were exempted from the scheme.

Half the proceeds of the sales were paid to the local authorities, but the government restricted authorities' use of most of the money to reducing their debt until it was cleared rather than spending it on building more homes. The effect was to reduce the council housing stock, especially in areas where property prices were high, such as London and the south-east of England."

The cap was lifted

The maximum permitted contribution from RTB receipts to replacement affordable housing has increased from 50% to 100%.

Retained Right to Buy receipts and their use for replacement supply: guidance

www.gov.uk

 

[Mr Badger]

The cap was lifted

The maximum permitted contribution from RTB receipts to replacement affordable housing has increased from 50% to 100%.

Retained Right to Buy receipts and their use for replacement supply: guidance

www.gov.uk

A recent change that evidently hasn't done much yet to undo all the damage of previous decades.

It's well known why the Tories loved the idea of selling off council houses and your position seems quite bizarre (David Cameron wasn't a Tory?) however we are taking this thread off topic, so I will make this my last post in this exchange:

"At the 2011 Conservative Party Conference, David Cameron proposed to increase Right to Buy discounts in order to revitalise the housing market and generate receipts which could be spent on new housing. Social housing professionals expressed concerns over the proposal.

As of 2 April 2012, the Right to Buy discount was increased to a maximum of £75,000 or 60% of the house value (70% for a flat) depending on which is lower. In March 2013, the maximum discount in London was increased to £100,000. The maximum right to buy discount increases each financial year in line with CPI as at the previous September.

The aim of the scheme is, for every additional home sold, a new home will be built for 'affordable rent' at up to 80% of market rent, aimed at maintaining the level of affordable housing while also increasing the number of properties available for those on the waiting list. The five year tenancy criterion will remain, and should the property be sold within the first five years of the original sale, part or all of the discount will be required to be paid back.

The Housing and Planning Bill 2016 extended right-to-buy to housing association tenants."

"Criticisms​

The Right to Buy scheme has been criticised for the following reasons:

Speculating investors were able to buy up council properties through deferred transaction agreements, hastening the rise in property costs;

Commercially and socially valuable council assets were sold at below their market value or replacement cost, which can be seen to be an imprudent waste of public money;

The remaining stock of council housing was concentrated in undesirable areas with little employment opportunity, further isolating and stigmatising the tenants.

A report published in January 2013 by London Assembly member Tom Copley, From Right to Buy to Buy to Let, showed that 36% of homes sold under Right to Buy in London (52,000 homes) were being rented by councils from private landlords, leading to criticisms that the scheme "represents incredibly poor value for money to taxpayers" since it "helped to fuel the increase in the housing benefit bill, heaped more pressure on local authority waiting lists and led to more Londoners being forced into the under-regulated private rented sector". A survey in 2013 showed around one third of Right to Buy houses were now owned by private landlords, while the son of the late Ian Gow (Thatcher's housing minister) owned some 40 houses.

In 2015, Alan Murie concluded that "the proposed extension of right-to-buy could not easily be reconciled with the independence and charitable status of housing associations" and that "extending the right-to-buy to housing association tenants revived a previous Parliamentary debate and raised questions about the legal position of charities and the risks faced by housing associations and their funders".

A 2017 BBC survey of council areas where waiting lists were rising showed the councils had bought back houses they had been forced to sell, sometimes at many times the original price. Housing charities criticised the lack of investment in affordable housing."

 

[Tram]

A recent change that evidently hasn't done much yet to undo all the damage of previous decades.

It's well known why the Tories loved the idea of selling off council houses and your position seems quite bizarre (David Cameron wasn't a Tory?) however we are taking this thread off topic, so I will make this my last post in this exchange:

"At the 2011 Conservative Party Conference, David Cameron proposed to increase Right to Buy discounts in order to revitalise the housing market and generate receipts which could be spent on new housing. Social housing professionals expressed concerns over the proposal.

As of 2 April 2012, the Right to Buy discount was increased to a maximum of £75,000 or 60% of the house value (70% for a flat) depending on which is lower. In March 2013, the maximum discount in London was increased to £100,000. The maximum right to buy discount increases each financial year in line with CPI as at the previous September.

The aim of the scheme is, for every additional home sold, a new home will be built for 'affordable rent' at up to 80% of market rent, aimed at maintaining the level of affordable housing while also increasing the number of properties available for those on the waiting list. The five year tenancy criterion will remain, and should the property be sold within the first five years of the original sale, part or all of the discount will be required to be paid back.

The Housing and Planning Bill 2016 extended right-to-buy to housing association tenants."

"Criticisms​

The Right to Buy scheme has been criticised for the following reasons:

Speculating investors were able to buy up council properties through deferred transaction agreements, hastening the rise in property costs;

Commercially and socially valuable council assets were sold at below their market value or replacement cost, which can be seen to be an imprudent waste of public money;

The remaining stock of council housing was concentrated in undesirable areas with little employment opportunity, further isolating and stigmatising the tenants.

A report published in January 2013 by London Assembly member Tom Copley, From Right to Buy to Buy to Let, showed that 36% of homes sold under Right to Buy in London (52,000 homes) were being rented by councils from private landlords, leading to criticisms that the scheme "represents incredibly poor value for money to taxpayers" since it "helped to fuel the increase in the housing benefit bill, heaped more pressure on local authority waiting lists and led to more Londoners being forced into the under-regulated private rented sector". A survey in 2013 showed around one third of Right to Buy houses were now owned by private landlords, while the son of the late Ian Gow (Thatcher's housing minister) owned some 40 houses.

In 2015, Alan Murie concluded that "the proposed extension of right-to-buy could not easily be reconciled with the independence and charitable status of housing associations" and that "extending the right-to-buy to housing association tenants revived a previous Parliamentary debate and raised questions about the legal position of charities and the risks faced by housing associations and their funders".

A 2017 BBC survey of council areas where waiting lists were rising showed the councils had bought back houses they had been forced to sell, sometimes at many times the original price. Housing charities criticised the lack of investment in affordable housing."

The people you mentioned have vested interests in selling affordable homes. Housing association have an interest in not selling there homes. I feel sorry for those that would like a home but are unable to get a mortgage in the private sector.

Anyway looking forward to getting my documents. And see what difficulties turn up.

 

[jpaul]

you'd be kidding yourself if you think housing situation&cost is way better in europe (france anyway) might have stabler rents, longer term mortgages;

cant find earlier thread just

Spoiler: compare

 

[That Jekka Gal]

you'd be kidding yourself if you think housing situation&cost is way better in europe (france anyway) might have stabler rents, longer term mortgages;

cant find earlier thread just

Spoiler: compare

Not sure comparing Cambridge with Nice presents a fair comparison of the housing market in the UK and France, to be honest.

You can still buy a sizeable rural property with land for the same price as an average 2/3 bed semi in many parts of France and Spain & traditionally the locals don’t seem to find these properties as desirable hence people from the uk and elsewhere snapping them up for what are ostensibly bargain basement prices.

In the case of a new apartment in a major urban centre, on the other hand, prices seem to be more in line with prices here.

I’m basing this on knowledge of living in Europe 10+ yrs ago, so of course this may have changed.

 

[Tram]

you'd be kidding yourself if you think housing situation&cost is way better in europe (france anyway) might have stabler rents, longer term mortgages;

cant find earlier thread just

Spoiler: compare

I am not moving to Nice, for a start. It is Barcelona or Madrid. I am moving for quality of life, better weather, better food, cleaner air more freedom, and those cities are much cleaner than London or Birmingham.

The UK is too restrictive for my liking, the food is nasty, weather is depressing, it feels rundown. There are others things that.I hates but it could annoy you.

The UK has changed over the last 10 years, pay more get less, plus I don't want our future children to be brought up in a UK environment.

I am.happy to pay taxes but not happy for tax payments to be transferred to companies that are leeching the system, or the complete mismanagement of every public sector in this country. There is no rule of law in the UK and fiscal depression of wages.

There are no values anymore in the the UK, it will continue to get worse. They will cut cut cut and increase taxes or find new ways to introduce taxes.

I am sorry to say the UK is a dump, the previous governments have destroyed this country. No wonder there is a big increase in mental & physical health in this country.

I don't know if you have lived ( not holidays) in other countries to know the difference.

You are welcome to stay in the UK and wait till the problems are fixed, or pay more tax to try and resolve the issues, I not will to stay, waste my time I'll move on.

 

[Voltar]

Councils are to blame for housing. Right to Buy was great. The councils should have just taken the simple step of putting overage clauses on the properties, then literally everyone benefits from the property market increases.
Instead? Billions in debt amongst our local councils and lack of available housing stock when we have had vast amounts of wealth created via property.

 

[jpaul]

I am not moving to Nice, for a start. It is Barcelona or Madrid. I am moving for quality of life, better weather, better food, cleaner air more freedom, and those cities are much cleaner than London or Birmingham.

it's a personal'ish example, but part of the calculations for any eu destination, even though you maybe happy to spend more on housing, knowing other costs are reduced.

You can still buy a sizeable rural property with land for the same price as an average 2/3 bed semi in many parts of France and Spain & traditionally the locals don’t seem to find these properties as desirable hence people from the uk and elsewhere snapping them up for what are ostensibly bargain basement prices.

I think this is somewhat romanticized , especially encroaching on retirement , older properties with poorer insulation, or further from infrastructure do incur more costs & upkeep.

 

[Diddums]

I am not moving to Nice, for a start.

Irrelevant when talking to jpaul. You can ask what the weather is in London this weekend and he'll start banging on about a heatwave that Pyongyang experienced in 1927. He also seems to think that France is Europe.

You get used to his jibbering musings after a while, just ignore them like everyone else does.


I must be honest, the UK is starting to wear a bit thin on me too. You don't notice it until you go abroad. We're getting absolutely stiffed in every single aspect of life. Everything's getting more expensive, everything you pay for is getting smaller, and the gov has made it abundandly clear that the only two things they care about is their impression on the international stage, and the wealthy. The NHS is in decline, the police forces are struggling, water services are going down the drain, power and gas is a rip off, vehicle ownership is becoming prohibitively expensive unless you own an EV, I could go on and on.

Then I go to Holland and whilst it's not a country I'd live in (again), you see how much better the quality of life is instantly.

 

[Mr Badger]

Councils are to blame for housing. Right to Buy was great. The councils should have just taken the simple step of putting overage clauses on the properties, then literally everyone benefits from the property market increases.
Instead? Billions in debt amongst our local councils and lack of available housing stock when we have had vast amounts of wealth created via property.

The government set the rules that councils had to sell the properties at below the market value and only receive 50% of the proceeds, which they weren't allowed to directly use to provide more housing. How do you think councils would have been able to get away with applying overage clauses?

 

[Tram]

The government set the rules that councils had to sell the properties at below the market value and only receive 50% of the proceeds, which they weren't allowed to directly use to provide more housing. How do you think councils would have been able to get away with applying overage clauses?

Policy was changed a few years ago it went from 50% to 100%. But council failed to follow the new rules. They also mismanaged their income from service charges and upgrades.

I worked a year at a council property department
as a temp. they had savills selling council property way below market value. I remember a charity that helped the local committee wanted to buy the property but they refused and sold it to a private developer for less than what the charity offered. They also had another property with around 84 flats empty for 6 years. I was really annoyed about that. There's plenty of properties the council had that could be used for housing people but we're empty for years.
Councils are completely mismanaged and waste a lot of financial resources, it so corrupt.

Then again housing associations didn't want RTB on their doorstep. As I mentioned look who owns housing associations, once I saw who controls them I saw them in a different way. I found out private companies hiding behind none profits companies.

I realised my romantic view of the UK was not the reality and this was another reason why I need to leave. Yes, everywhere has there issues but this country corrupt in every single area.

Landlord are making millions from housing seekers. Charging double the rates. Yet failed to house UK nationals. Demark have introduced polices to kick people out of the country if they don't follow the rules. It been reported asylum claims have dropped by 90%.