Air India Crash

Armageus said:
Probably me reading more into it than what's there, but given that it suggests more inspections of Engine/Fuel/Hydraulic systems, does that not point to them suspecting Engine failure rather than pilot error?
Click to expand...
I'd guess they're just covering broad bases of what could cause a plane to crash a few seconds after takeoff.

Could be an interesting PR fight coming up regarding the preliminary report from blackbox data - Air India will want it out quickly if fault appears to lay with Boeing; Boeing will want it out quickly if fault appears to be with pilots/airline, especially given their ongoing issues.
 
Honestly in a 787 - those things are so highly automated, so many checks and so much automation built into all of the systems - with most of the stuff being pre-calculated, I'd find it absolutely insane if it does turn out to be pilot error.

My gut feeling is going with some sort of catastrophic failure relating to either the engines, (software controlling the engines), avionics or maybe hydraulics.
 
Felon said:
Honestly in a 787 - those things are so highly automated, so many checks and so much automation built into all of the systems - with most of the stuff being pre-calculated, I'd find it absolutely insane if it does turn out to be pilot error.

My gut feeling is going with some sort of catastrophic failure relating to either the engines, (software controlling the engines), avionics or maybe hydraulics.
Click to expand...

Software is where I’m placing my bet currently.
 
Penfold101 said:
Software is where I’m placing my bet currently.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's a decent guess, just the way the plane slowly sinks - it looks like something totally stupid is going on with a fundamental control system.

Based on what we had with the MAX, it wouldn't surprise me if something similar(ish) is to blame, and it boils down to a rare bug, or other condition.
 
That Pilot Steve video is saying he thinks it could have been pilot error, with the co-pilot moving flaps instead of bringing the landing gear up. Surely that's not an easy mistake to make? Or is it??
 
radderfire said:
That Pilot Steve video is saying he thinks it could have been pilot error, with the co-pilot moving flaps instead of bringing the landing gear up. Surely that's not an easy mistake to make? Or is it??
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw that, I mean - I'm not sure a 787 will let you do that, and they don't normally pull the flaps in, in one go - they're retracted in steps gradually as they gain speed and altitude.

Time will tell though, I guess.
 
radderfire said:
That Pilot Steve video is saying he thinks it could have been pilot error, with the co-pilot moving flaps instead of bringing the landing gear up. Surely that's not an easy mistake to make? Or is it??
Click to expand...
I find this theory to be complete nonsense so it’ll probably be correct.
The landing gear lever is on the pilots dashboard so to speak and physically very different to the flap leaver which is down to the right of the throttle both are operated by the first officer,
 
Felon said:
Yeah it's a decent guess, just the way the plane slowly sinks - it looks like something totally stupid is going on with a fundamental control system.

Based on what we had with the MAX, it wouldn't surprise me if something similar(ish) is to blame, and it boils down to a rare bug, or other condition.
Click to expand...
Reminds me of the decades old Airbus crash.

 
Felon said:
Yeah I saw that, I mean - I'm not sure a 787 will let you do that, and they don't normally pull the flaps in, in one go - they're retracted in steps gradually as they gain speed and altitude.

Time will tell though, I guess.
Click to expand...
Yep, people seem to keep jumping on the flap theory like "flaps up" is the only other setting. There are steps of flaps, and there's a physical barrier you have to navigate the lever around to get past flaps 1 to the fully up position. Them retracting a single step of flap would not cause the issue, and you can just move the lever back to the original position and be gaining lift as soon as the hydraulic motors start pushing the flaps back out.

@Slam62 There's been a few incidents where flaps were retracted instead of landing gear. It's rare but it happens.
@plasmahal That Airbus crash was not software. The pilot purposely disabled certain computers to allow the low and slow fly past and didn't keep enough situation awareness after the stress of a last minute runway change, and by the time they'd pushed the thrust levers to TOGA to get out of the situation the engines started ingesting trees and it was game over.
 
radderfire said:
That Pilot Steve video is saying he thinks it could have been pilot error, with the co-pilot moving flaps instead of bringing the landing gear up. Surely that's not an easy mistake to make? Or is it??
Click to expand...
They'll be looking at everything. Pilot fatigue has led to basic errors like that happening before. So whilst normally unthinkable they won't rule it out until they recover the evidence of flap setting.
 
Armageus said:
Probably me reading more into it than what's there, but given that it suggests more inspections of Engine/Fuel/Hydraulic systems, does that not point to them suspecting Engine failure rather than pilot error?
Click to expand...

I think it's more likely that those are things they can inspect than things they suspect. If it was pilot error there's nothing they can do immediately to catch it, if it was an engine fault they might prevent another incident by ordering extra inspections.
 
Junglist said:
We're all experts after we've had a chance to read the real experts opinion and regurgitate them!


Or just hundreds of hours of Microsoft Flight Sim!
Click to expand...
Never claimed to be a pilot, but I have several thousand hours on Aerowinx Precision Simulator which is without question, the best 744 process and procedure simulator out there with the best flight model. And I've had a few 744 actual sim sessions.

While that doesn't make me an expert, it does mean I have a very good working knowledge of the 744, and the basic systems on the 787 are very similar. I've flown a full motion 787 sim and my 744 knowledge really helped.

But I'm still an armchair pilot and my opinion hasn't changed yet.
 
I know enough about flying to know that I know almost nothing about flying. My friends have asked me what I think could be the cause and my honest answer is that I don't know and couldn't even speculate.
 
GIBURROWS said:
The video of him strolling about, no tears no devastation, I would expect someone to be an absolute wreck
Click to expand...

It's called being in shock and none of what has really happened has really sunk in yet and won't for a few days at least. Also we don't see what has happened in private and off the cameras.

The same is happening to him regarding the shock and the families and friends of the crew and passengers. The situation is so horrible the brain almost kicks into self-defence and slowly processes the issues and in them moments people break down for periods until they go back again into a shock and as you describe show nothing but really its just the brain can't process all the stimulation that is happening at that time and puts you almost into a fully awake coma.

Been in a serious car accident in my younger life with my family and know that feeling very well, from tears and total breakdown to like nothing has happened and matters in the world to another episode later of the same over again. Until you experience such a situation of shock and stress, you really have no grounds of understanding it unless you either go threw it or watch someone going threw it.

You will see this sadly soon enough with this chap that survived and then also see the anger he has about the situation.
 
Last edited:
“Mayday,” Sabharwal said in a desperate last call to air traffic controllers as the aircraft struggled to gain altitude after leaving the runway, “no thrust, losing power, unable to lift.”
Click to expand...

Tbh, I've read this from multiple places, it sounds increasingly like an engine/engine-related problem than anything else.

If it turns out to be a software problem again, Boeing are going to be in big trouble...
 
Felon said:
Tbh, I've read this from multiple places, it sounds increasingly like an engine/engine-related problem than anything else.

If it turns out to be a software problem again, Boeing are going to be in big trouble...
Click to expand...
They already are, losing $1 billion a month.

But really, too big to fail - What would happen to air travel and all the government contracts?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom