EV general discussion

[ICDP]

It's jut not the hill I am going to chose to die on. They're better for the environment but still have an impact with all the mining for the batteries so in an ideal world everyone would be to use recycled aluminium or steel bicycles. But we don't live in an ideal world, which is why ICEs, for now, are the better option for the majority. Trying to convert someone to a logically worse choice for them is going to go down like a lead balloon.

ICE cars are naturally going to dwindle after 2035. Until there is a viable way for cheaper public charging to be available to the masses you can't expect people to just switch overnight to EVs. Otherwise for those less well off and require a car for work, you're sticking a middle finger up at them. EVs are amazing when you can charge at home on a cheap overnight rate but millions will not be able to do that. Hundreds of thousands will not be able to afford even a semi decent used electric car then on top of that they have to get the no Vaseline treatment at expensive public charging.

Fix the public charging issue with reasonable prices that make petrol/diesel options unattractive and people will switch. Until then, EVs are just an expensive inconvenience to many

But you are using the small minority of people who an EV wouldn’t suit and applying the logic to the majority. The majority of car owners would be able to run and charge an EV perfectly fine for their needs. Nothing but benefits for them even if costs are the only factor.

Like I said, the mid to longer term positive impact of EVs for the environment over ICE is just no longer open for honest debate. Bringing bicycles into it is like asking “do you want brown bread or white bread?”… it doesn’t matter I’ve got my bike outside. It’s totally irrelevant to the question of ICE or EV are better for the environment. That’s not the same as me saying you should care about the environment, just pointing out a fact.

 

[Diddums]

Is that not kind of weird enough in itself? Why would anyone feel the need to try and convert someone else's vehicle of choice.

I'm not particularly for or agaisnt EVs. I have one because it ticked the boxes I needed ticking but for a whole swathe of the population they're not ideal at all.

Truth be told, if money was no issue and I wasn't concerned about petrol costs, servicing and so on. I'd absolutely still be driving an ICE.

This is what I don't understand. This whole thread a year ago was absolutely toxic for it, you couldn't come in here and ask a question without some folks thinking that you were attacking their life choices directly, and they got awfully emotional about it. I still don't understand the reasoning behind this but whatevs, things have moved on.

Personally if I'm an early-ish adopter of something and randoms start asking questions then I'm all for it, the more people I engage with, the more people I have to talk to about something I enjoy talking about. Would I think to question anyone not participating in it? No, not at all. This attitude of attacking people because they have the audacity to participate in something I enjoy is genuinely mind boggling.

Very odd mentality.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Price is still far higher than charging at home though

It has to be, people keep cutting the cables off! Plus the other stuff.

Its a bit like insurance for cars, better doesnt mean it cheaper. Better means more availability for the convienience of driving?

Once you live it it doesnt really bother you ive found, I've just remote started charging through ocotopus Electroverse the wifes Evoque at a Morrisons cos she couldnt be bothered to get fuel as its a PHEV.

 

[ICDP]

Can't be bothered with the pandantics of EV versus ICE really, but some on either side will always get on their soap box about it.
I purchased an EV because I can have a car with similar performance and prestige I'm used to that costs me much less to run than a ICE.
To be honest I couldn't give two hoots about the environment arguments either.

But that’s an answer to a different question.

Do you care about the environment?

Is a totally different question to:

Are EVs ultimately better for the environment than an ICE?

 

[Junglist]

But you are using the small minority of people who an EV wouldn’t suit and applying the logic to the majority.

I doubt that it's a small minority of people an EV wouldn't suit. People without driveways, people who live in flats, people without designated parking spaces, people who live in rented accommodation and do not have permission to install a charger. I'll go as far to say it's actually a minority that EVs suit, right now.

If you are reliant on public charging and at the mercy of those absurd prices the benefits of an EV wane very, very quickly.

 

[cuke2u]

But that’s an answer to a different question.

Do you care about the environment?

Is a totally different question to:

Are EVs ultimately better for the environment than an ICE?

The environment played only a little part in my decision and if I could have purchased an equivalent ICE for the same running costs then that's what I would have done.
Not about to join the debate about what is good and what is bad or what I care about thank you.

 

[ICDP]

Roughly 70% of UK households have access to off street parking. A significant number of people have access to cheaper work charging. So it is in fact a majority of car owners (not just households) that have access to cheaper charging.

 

[ICDP]

The environment played only a little part in my decision and f I could have purchased an equivalent ICE for the same running costs then that's what I would have done.
Not about to join the debate about what is good and what is bad or what I care about thank you.

My apologies I’m not trying to start a debate, just correcting a common misconception that there’s still open debate about EVs being overall as harmful to the environment as ICE, they demonstrably aren’t.

The other misconception is that the only reason people buy EVs is because of the environment.

I’m agreeing with you, just badly

 

[bigmike20vt]

UK charging is getting a lot better a lot faster now, some of the hubs popping up really are impressive.

it's the price which I think is a barrier for many people now imo rather than the speed of the charging.

350kw charging may be impressive but if it's 75p kWh it's more than diesel and that is gonna be a big turn off for the people who will rely on it regularly (for me %age of my use wise it's a rounding error over the year but that is because I don't need it often)

edit damn should have refreshed page before replying !

 

[bigmike20vt]

I feel like I'm back in school partaking in console fanboy wars. They're just cars. They're not an extension of us so why would you take someone having a (flawed) opinion to heart so much.

but the Amiga is way better than the Atari ST

 

[Junglist]

So 30% cant. And of that 70% how many of those are council houses, where you can't always have it installed? Or renters, or houses which do not have suitable infrastructure to charge? Suddenly that 70% could be 50% or less. So maybe I was wrong that they're not in the minority but it's still not as viable for many people are just going to the supermarket petrol forecourt and filling up.

Once there is the ability to charge cheaply and the chargers are as abundant as petrol stations, the masses will switch. But seeing 89p per kWh isn't going to tempt the people that can't take advantage of the 6-8p/kWh that EV drivers rave on about

 

[Junglist]

but the Amiga is way better than the Atari ST

I am starting to go grey but not quite that grey yet

 

[Firegod]

Hi all. Next year maybe possible car change season. I'd like to go electric to save money. I was looking into leasing as I always usually do PCP and end up slapping down quite a wedge of cash. I don't modify cars now (the supercharged Mustang GT was my last hurrah!), and I don't buy them at the end of the PCP deal. I always just chop and change. I really like the Polestar 4 and a quick look online, you can grab one for £350 a month (long range single motor) for like £4k up front. That's 3 year lease, 5k miles (more than enough for me). That monthly outgoing alone would save me £1,440 a year! Not including petrol savings. Any pitfalls? Or would this be a better way for me going forwards? The only thing I can think of is in those 3 years I must also save for a new deposit for when the lease ends. Any other downsides?

 

[ICDP]

but the Amiga is way better than the Atari ST

I remember trying to buy the old ST Amiga Format magazine in Easons (think N. Ireland version of WH Smyths). There was no price on it and girl asked her friend “how much is this saint amiga magazine”. This is going to way back to the early 90s.

When electric cars was a milk float and a tablet was what you took for a headache.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Hi all. Next year maybe possible car change season. I'd like to go electric to save money. I was looking into leasing as I always usually do PCP and end up slapping down quite a wedge of cash. I don't modify cars now (the supercharged Mustang GT was my last hurrah!), and I don't buy them at the end of the PCP deal. I always just chop and change. I really like the Polestar 4 and a quick look online, you can grab one for £350 a month (long range single motor) for like £4k up front. That's 3 year lease, 5k miles (more than enough for me). That monthly outgoing alone would save me £1,440 a year! Not including petrol savings. Any pitfalls? Or would this be a better way for me going forwards? The only thing I can think of is in those 3 years I must also save for a new deposit for when the lease ends. Any other downsides?

sounds like you have already done yours sums.. No pitfalls as such i can think of (but i dont own a polestar) but dont forget to factor in the cost of a charge point if you plan to charge at home (at a guess £1200 should have you covered, get a charge point which supports smart chaging).

 

[Firegod]

sounds like you have already done yours sums.. No pitfalls as such i can think of (but i dont own a polestar) but dont forget to factor in the cost of a charge point if you plan to charge at home (at a guess £1200 should have you covered).

Thanks mate. Thankfully already have a charger as well (as my dad moved to an EV this time round). Yeah I'm sitting here thinking, I must be missing something PCP vs Lease but I don't think I am.

 

[Haggisman]

Roughly 70% of UK households have access to off street parking. A significant number of people have access to cheaper work charging. So it is in fact a majority of car owners (not just households) that have access to cheaper charging.

What is "off-street parking" though? A parking space next to a block of flats? A designated space in a multi-storey 1/4 mile away? A free-for-all "residents only" car park at the end of their road?

but the Amiga is way better than the Atari ST

N64 or GTFO

 

[ICDP]

What is "off-street parking" though? A parking space next to a block of flats? A designated space in a multi-storey 1/4 mile away? A free-for-all "residents only" car park at the end of their road?

Don’t know but the majority of households have a drive and the majority of homes have multiple cars. All I know is the RAC did a study on car owners and 75% of them had off street parking access.

Sorry I don’t have more details, just that contrary to popular belief, most car owners would indeed be able to utilise an EV without major inconvenience.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I think that is the key issue.. Whilst it is true an EV would currently be more of a pita or more expensive for a lot of people right now........ Equally there is a lot of low hanging fruit still to be picked, people who would save considerably with an EV and who one would work for but are currently put off by them due to scare stories, many of which are either seriously out of date , massively over exaggerated or just flat out untrue.

Its that low hanging fruit that i think that needs to be sorted.

someone living on the 15th story in a flat with their £1000 ICE car which is just parked where ever room can be found for it............. That is a different (but important) puzzle to solve but should be kept separate imo... The reality is there will be ICE cars on the road for the next 25 years or more so its not like there will be a shortage of them.

I doubt many of the people buying £100,000 range rovers are living in places that are unable to charge them were they fully EV instead

 

[kefkef]

Got to be Amiga rather than Atari!... Just clearing out my mums house and got a few bits from my youth!