First Look: Unreal Tournament 3 With PhysX

[killer_uk]

I've been following this game forever, can't believe I've missed a proper confirmed date.... care to link to it?

I've heard people speculate about dates, not seen anything confirmed yet though.

I'd love it if I'm wrong though

It was announced at this years E3. There is a HD video linked here with the release date at the end. (You can download this video in full HD from anywhere.)

The official forum now states the release is now for november.

Here is the box art as well

 

[helmutcheese]

Yes. Game is officially Nov, and most guessed that as Sep grew closer.

 

[Chronictank]

“Graw 2 doesn't show anything physics wise on the level of Crysis”
Lets see. Foliage and Palm trees that are affected by the force from wind and players movement. Crysis is player movement only, no wind.GRAW 2 explosions are more realistic as wind can blow the parts from the explosions in different directions.

Then there is the cloth simulation for tents and camouflage nets about x100 times better then cloth in Crysis.

Crysis doesn’t show anything physics wise on the level of GRAW 2 Everything physics wise Crysis does is in GRAW 2. But there are things in GRAW 2 not in Crysis

thing is mate as i said before, we are yet to see anything of the sort which is significantly better than what you can do without a ppu
They should be pimping the card to every developer, and even helping with code if they have to. Hell they could make a demo to show off the real capability of the card to customers so the feedback to the big names is a thumbs up
Imo UT3 is a make or break for them to truely show off the card in a big name game

i hope they dont do a voodoo, but i really cant see them avoiding it as the cards are too dear for a marginally higher bit of eye candy (not talking about the physics, but the effect for the customer), i would rather spend that £100 on getting a better gfx card than the one budgetted

I would LOVE to see games get more relistic and use a ppu, but atm i cant see it happening any time soon.

 

[TBirdUK]

Ive got an ageia physx card still in its box - maybe I will put it in and see what its all about!

 

[Pottsey]

“Is you watched videos of Crysis inc the interviews, you would know there is wind from nature and from Copter blades, that affect debris, not just from Player moving by bushes.“
I admit I gave not gone though tons of videos only about 4 and none had wind,. Every time I asked for someone to post wind from the game they cannot find any videos. So I don’t believe it. If you know a location that has a video of Crysis and wind in game then please show it to me.





“we are yet to see anything of the sort which is significantly better than what you can do without a ppu”
Are you lot even reading my posts? I posted a bunch of examples and physics effects that are significantly better then the CPU.

Cloth simulation for tents and camouflage nets about x100 times better on the PPU then CPU games. Its significantly better then the CPU unless someone proves otherwise.

 

[ergonomics]

“Is you watched videos of Crysis inc the interviews, you would know there is wind from nature and from Copter blades, that affect debris, not just from Player moving by bushes.“
I admit I gave not gone though tons of videos only about 4 and none had wind,. Every time I asked for someone to post wind from the game they cannot find any videos. So I don’t believe it. If you know a location that has a video of Crysis and wind in game then please show it to me.





“we are yet to see anything of the sort which is significantly better than what you can do without a ppu”
Are you lot even reading my posts? I posted a bunch of examples and physics effects that are significantly better then the CPU.

Cloth simulation for tents and camouflage nets about x100 times better on the PPU then CPU games. Its significantly better then the CPU unless someone proves otherwise.

removed link

i think the thing is, is that the effects that the ppu CAN deliver, like the 3D liquids, soft metals, etc, have very little affect on gameplay, no matter how dynamic the player may be. the physics crysis offers may be basic as you say, but the way in which they are delivered, and the way in which they are used in gamepley, are far better than the ppu. which is a shame, as i believe the only failing of the ppu is the TERRIBLE marketing. as from what ive seen the 'games' are mostly tech demos (minus graw2) that show effects.

but tech demos alas will never be as popular as a game like bioshock or crysis etc etc etc

edit: omg the ai is shocking in that video, that NEEDS sorting for release

 

[Pottsey]

“...physics crysis offers may be …...and the way in which they are used in gamepley, are far better than the ppu.”
Can you give some examples as I cannot think of any.

 

[ergonomics]

“...physics crysis offers may be …...and the way in which they are used in gamepley, are far better than the ppu.”
Can you give some examples as I cannot think of any.

destroyable trees: knocking down a tree for cover, also enemies make use of said cover.

destroyable buildings: if people are hiding just punch through the walls
likewise if theyre in the house set charge on the structure and it will collapse on them

obviously all the other basic things like picking up objects and throwing them at the enemies (im under the impression this is a feature of the game), throwing enemies etc

it does it in a way that there is no need to introduce anything more. eg there is no need for '3D liquids' which look really wierd anyway, and completely unrealistic like cellfactor showed me.

 

[Trox]

Do you have a PPU, ergonomics?

 

[ergonomics]

Do you have a PPU, ergonomics?

no, i have a mate who does though

you?

 

[nikebee]

It was announced at this years E3. There is a HD video linked here with the release date at the end. (You can download this video in full HD from anywhere.)

The official forum now states the release is now for november.

Here is the box art as well

I'd seen the box art, somehow missed that video... Wicked ..... oooh I'm all excited now

 

[Pottsey]

“i believe the only failing of the ppu is the TERRIBLE marketing.”
Now that I fully agree with. They should be going out there getting more developers to use it. They should post guidelines to reviews so we don’t get silly stuff like CPU’s running at lower settings and people going it’s faster. Not to mention an updated website with a correct list of supported PPU games.

Ageia marketing team are some of the worst out there.



“destroyable trees: knocking down a tree for cover, also enemies make use of said cover.”
Just how is that any better then what the PPU does?





“eg there is no need for '3D liquids' which look really wierd anyway, and completely unrealistic like cellfactor showed me.“
There are lots of reasons to use 3d liquids, cloth and other effects. It might not be needed in every game but not having it is holding game play back. There are lots of things you can only do with real 3d liquid. Watch the below video and tell me its not needed. You could have a FPS game with a fire fight in a storage hanger with large fuel tanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoH3JQJGlA

Saying liquids are not needed is like saying smoke or fire are not needed.

 

[ergonomics]

yeah those liquid effects look terrible. the way it flows aswell, just really unrealistic and blobby. and your saying about firefights with places with fuel tanks, why would having thick unrealistic liquid flowing out of there be any better than just an effect of liquid gushing out?

and im not saying the tree effects are better. im saying they are PERFECT for gameplay, so why need anything more?

the ppu introduces things that no game needs at all atm. maybe if a dev team is willing to really put effort into gameplay design, then parhaps they can implement it in a way so that everyone will play it, but atm, its like they have put these effects in because they can, not because they are necessary.

 

[Margaret]

That liquid looks awful.

 

[Trox]

no, i have a mate who does though

you?

I just wondered how you manage to comment on something that you dont have.
nm

 

[ps3ud0]

“destroyable trees: knocking down a tree for cover, also enemies make use of said cover.”
Just how is that any better then what the PPU does?

The reason why its better is because it doesnt cost more for the gamer to enjoy the effect. Lets flip this, just how is the physics model in Crysis any worse when at a gross level it can provide the 'same' result as a PPU (enough to fool a gamer)?

“eg there is no need for '3D liquids' which look really wierd anyway, and completely unrealistic like cellfactor showed me.“
There are lots of reasons to use 3d liquids, cloth and other effects. It might not be needed in every game but not having it is holding game play back.

I cant remember a game in the last 20 years of my gaming experience where Ive thought, damn if only this water was more realistic it would make the game so much better and make me want to play this more (actually thinking about it Sim Copter perhaps ). As an 'in-joke' is it me or do fanboys have a thing about water?

Pottsey,

I dont want to insult your intelligence, but Im rather worried about your infactuation with PPUs. From what I have read from the majority of your posts is that you have a very blinkered view when it comes to physics; actually lets rephrase that - when it comes to PPUs...

The majority of users on the forums have agreed that the potential of a PGU would be useful in giving another layer of gaming, its just that they dont feel that Ageias PPU is the way to go - either through poor support, lack of games or bad marketing...

No-one can disagree with Ageias PPUs abilities and that at the moment it probably outstrips the power of other potential PGUs, but do we actually need it? The real question should be, is how complicate do the physics (and the types of discrete physics) need to be to fool gamers that the visual results they see are 'physically accurate'? If this means that present solutions (i.e. physics model in Crysis) are adequate then so be it. A lot of people here are testament to that, why should they be wrong if Ageias PPU could do it better?

This whole argument stinks of Betamax vs VHS where Ageias PPU is technologically superior but ultimately fails because simplier PGUs are good enough in the eyes of the potential market (lets be honest the kind of people on this forum are Ageias market)...

I very much think you have tainted your reasonable argument by taking the stance that Ageias PPU is the be all and end all - perhaps if you approached it from commentating on what physics effects could enrich gaming and how only that is possible on Ageias PPU more people would listen/understand?

As I said earlier I dont want to insult you, but you seem to disregard other peoples opinion quite whimsically. I know you do reply back to a lot of comments, but it always seems you have already made your mind up that they are wrong and never enter into a real conversation about why Ageias PPU is just another Sinclair C5...

EDIT: Perhaps its best I put down my opinion on this, I think a PGU is the next big thing to happen to gaming, just like proper 3D game engines. But I dont think their time is now, considering the majority of my gaming is online, I cant see how MP physics could work without it being dumbed down significantly; which brings me back to the fact that the physics models Ive seen already seem adequate (they are no way really accurate, but in the heat of the battle they do the job) and could be improved significantly with probably little more load on the CPU/GPU. Id rather not pay for an extra card as to me physics isnt tangible and therefore the outlay would be hard for me to quantify unlike a new GFX card or sound card and is why Im all for integration into a CPU/GPU system. Perhaps a CPU/GPU PGU wouldnt be able to cope with Ageia PPU physics, but as Ive said earlier I just dont need all those effects to that point of accuracy...

ps3ud0

 

[Pottsey]

“Lets flip this, just how is the physics model in Crysis any worse when at a gross level it can provide the 'same' result as a PPU (enough to fool a gamer)?”
It doesn’t have the same results many of the nice effects are missing. Take a military truck with the cloth around the back. http://www.ageia.com/images/graw2_features.jpg like the firsts screenshot. Things like that are missing from Crysis and its better to have cloth then not have it.





“I cant remember a game in the last 20 years of my gaming experience where Ive thought, damn if only this water was more realistic it would make the game so much better”
That can be applied to most new effects. Few people play a game and think insert xxx here would make it better. The same can be said for FSAA, AF e.c.t Gamers didnt think of those before they started getting them in games.






“I very much think you have tainted your reasonable argument by taking the stance that Ageias PPU is the be all and end all - …. how only that is possible on Ageias PPU more people would listen/understand?”
I thought that’s what I was doing. I never acted or said the Ageia PPU is the be all and end all. I freely admit it’s got tons of problems like little game support and bad marketing.

It’s not the Ageia PPU I like it’s the idea of a PPU. If someone else bought one out or we had a decent one on the GPU I would like that just as much and talk about it. I honestly think we would all be better off, if we all had PPU’s either on PCI slots or built into something else.

If everyone had PPU’s with one standard API physics in games could be pushed forward far more then we have now. I am not against PPU’s on GPU’s its just so far GPU’s doing physics isn’t working.

 

[ps3ud0]

“Lets flip this, just how is the physics model in Crysis any worse when at a gross level it can provide the 'same' result as a PPU (enough to fool a gamer)?”
It doesn’t have the same results many of the nice effects are missing. Take a military truck with the cloth around the back. http://www.ageia.com/images/graw2_features.jpg like the firsts screenshot. Things like that are missing from Crysis and its better to have cloth then not have it.

As I said at a 'gross level' (i.e. enough to satisfy a gamers expectation). In all honesty, thats quite a weak (but technically valid) argument, as once youve gone 'Ahhh' the first few times, you wont notice it again, especially in something like Crysis or GRAW where you are spreading bullets...

“I very much think you have tainted your reasonable argument by taking the stance that Ageias PPU is the be all and end all - …. how only that is possible on Ageias PPU more people would listen/understand?”
I thought that’s what I was doing. I never acted or said the Ageia PPU is the be all and end all. I freely admit it’s got tons of problems like little game support and bad marketing.

It’s not the Ageia PPU I like it’s the idea of a PPU. If someone else bought one out or we had a decent one on the GPU I would like that just as much and talk about it. I honestly think we would all be better off, if we all had PPU’s either on PCI slots or built into something else.

If everyone had PPU’s with one standard API physics in games could be pushed forward far more then we have now. I am not against PPU’s on GPU’s its just so far GPU’s doing physics isn’t working.

Im afraid you havent, which is why you are labelled as an Ageia fanboy (rightly or wrongly) where it seems every other alternative PGU is automatically in the shadow of Ageias product. I agree with you on a technology standpoint, but as Ive said before perhaps its wiser to step back and look at what physics effects are really essential to make games more engrossing rather than making games fit with all the features Ageia (or anyone else) can throw at them (i.e. so what if Crysis cant reproduce these advanced cloth effects - exactly how badly will it ruin the gameplay? Will it actually stop people buying the game?)

Looking at what Ageias PPU can do, it really doesnt impress me since the increase in realism (sic) compared to what other non-PPU games can do just doesnt justify its existence (or price). The inference that these complicated physics models wont work for multiplayer gaming also makes me think that this isnt their time...

If I ever get a PGU Im much more likely (like I expect most) to pick up a Havok FX enabled GPU than a standalone product fully aware of the drawbacks since Im not going lose my ping or feel Im missing out on super-realistic graphics - its just much more accessible...

P.S. If Ageia/Epic bundled UT3 with their Physx card - no doubt some of us would be tempted - Ageia needs a a killer game and UT3 doesnt do it theyll just disappear.

P.P.S. Pottsey - mind trying to find out how physics is going to be translated on the MP platform?

ps3ud0

 

[Pottsey]

“P.P.S. Pottsey - mind trying to find out how physics is going to be translated on the MP platform?”
That’s hard to answer as different devs go down different paths. Right now I can think of 5 options sometimes they are mixed together.

Option 1, have high physics only maps where everyone has top play with high physics on or not join the map.
Option 2, Only use effect physics for MP and let people play without the new physics. Zero problems here.
Option 3a, Turn off high physics for MP
Option 3b, As above but use the PPU/GPU to speed up the standard physics.
Option 4, Turn on high physics for MP but only for LAN play.
Option 5, Let the low level physics people play with the high. Causing problems like one sees a broken wall. One see no bricks on ground so not slowed down by rubble. Pretty bad one if done incorrectly. Can be ok if done correctly. Have cloth hanging from a wall but not blocking line of site. One player shoots and tears cloth. Other player see’s an empty wall.





“(i.e. so what if Crysis cant reproduce these advanced cloth effects - exactly how badly will it ruin the gameplay?”
Personally I find the lack of cloth ruins gameplay a fair bit. You can no longer shoot though the cloth on the Jeep. Intread you have to go around the Jeep as you bullet cannot break the cloth.

Cloth adds a lot to the atmosphere and I hate seeing solid cloth that is also indestructible. It’s not essential but if it’s a choice I go for cloth. I see cloth like 3dsound, not essential but adds a lot to the atmosphere and/or gameplay.

Games like switchball it goes from being nice to being essential. Think of a game like Undying only intread of solid cloth you would now have curtains blowing in the wind. Cloth there adds a lot to the gameplay. More so due to the scary atmosphere. I think most people who have played Undying would agree with me Cloth would make that game even more spooky.







“The inference that these complicated physics models wont work for multiplayer gaming also makes me think that this isnt their time...”
Why do people keep bringing this up? People keep saying it won’t work for multiplayer. Well it does work current multiplayer games don’t seem to have a problem. MMORPG’s have even implanted the PPU. If it can work in a MMORPG it can work in any multiplayer game.

 

[ps3ud0]

“P.P.S. Pottsey - mind trying to find out how physics is going to be translated on the MP platform?”

“The inference that these complicated physics models wont work for multiplayer gaming also makes me think that this isnt their time...”
Why do people keep bringing this up? People keep saying it won’t work for multiplayer. Well it does work current multiplayer games don’t seem to have a problem. MMORPG’s have even implanted the PPU. If it can work in a MMORPG it can work in any multiplayer game.

Please explain to me how gameplay physics (only able to do this by Ageia PPUs if Ive read correctly) could be done adequately? Ive already stated an example of what I meant earlier - surely the bandwidth required to send this information would saturate the upload/download considering the load being applied on the PPU to initially generate it on one players PC?

Perhaps Im being naive, but if the effect generated requires an actual PPU because a CPU/GPU can not do the effect how can this information be sent to the server/other players in real-time? If you are only sending the setup information to recreate the effect (all players have a PPU using the same API) it still seems to be a lot to be sent (since there is a possibility more than one player doing something that would generate gameplay physics) and rendered in real-time...

I expect somewhere down the line the effects are dumbed down which negates the point of the PPU in the first place...

ps3ud0