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First Look: Unreal Tournament 3 With PhysX

Final8y said:
You do not have to say it or it to be so, your actions speak for them self .. your actions are your posts in them selfs.
The amount of post i make in PhysX threads are minuscule & yet as soon as i say anything positive you come with a fanboy remark which i find highly juvenile, im just sick to death of see people calling others fandoy all round the net as it used to try and win a point of view because the person has not enough confidence to post a well thought out reply or think the reply is not that strong on its own so feels the need to try & discredit the other with a saying that implys the other guy is not thinking with reasoning or logic & will defend the product no matter what because he has been sucked in by the hype & PR of a brand or product & not based on a persons personal experience of brand & product.
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I dont think it's juvenile at all, ok so, your not a fanboy, but I felt it was fanboy talk ok, nothing juvenile about that.
 
willhub said:
I dont think it's juvenile at all, ok so, your not a fanboy, but I felt it was fanboy talk ok, nothing juvenile about that.
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The fact you used the comment in the first place makes it juvenile no matter what my post looks like, as a juvenile would not be able to see the reasoning in my post so would call me a fanboy.
Young people of a certain age just don't understand that things don't change overnight like expecting first DX10 games & hardware to be instantly leaps & bounds from DX9 from the very start even tho they have been alive long enough to remember the first PS2 games & see how much better some of the latest PS2 games looked & played GOd Of War but all to ready to forget the facts that things take time to develop to see potential if a product was used to the max because of lack of personal experiences as they just not been alive long enough to see history repeating its self.
 
Final8y said:
The fact you used the comment in the first place makes it juvenile no matter what my post looks like, as a juvenile would not be able to see the reasoning in my post so would call me a fanboy.
Young people of a certain age just don't understand that things don't change overnight like expecting first DX10 games & hardware to be instantly leaps & bounds from DX9 from the very start even tho they have been alive long enough to remember the first PS2 games & see how much better some of the latest PS2 games looked & played GOd Of War but all to ready to forget the facts that things take time to develop to see potential if a product was used to the max because of lack of personal experiences as they just not been alive long enough to see history repeating its self.
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You think I expected DX10 to be leaps and bounds from DX9? Your very wrong then.

Give up, I said nothing juvenile.

Are you trying to make me feel small of something?:

"Young people of a certain age just don't understand that things don't change overnight"
 
willhub said:
You think I expected DX10 to be leaps and bounds from DX9? Your very wrong then.

Give up, I said nothing juvenile.

Are you trying to make me feel small of something?:

"Young people of a certain age just don't understand that things don't change overnight"
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I said people not you as regard to DX10/DX9.
But if all you want to do is use immature language in your debates then you only have yourself to blame.
Im tired & have said enough.
 
I feel this thread is disrailing somewhat. Can we forget about analysing the maturity of each others language and instead go back on topic?
 
how many people on here have actually bought the agiea ppu?
pottsy is one person from the top of my mind. and possibly 2 more people.

so agiea have sold 3 cards so far, which cost them a tenner to make a piece. they have made their money i believe :)
 
Cyber-Mav said:
how many people on here have actually bought the agiea ppu?
pottsy is one person from the top of my mind. and possibly 2 more people.

so agiea have sold 3 cards so far, which cost them a tenner to make a piece. they have made their money i believe :)
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Im sure that the costs of parts are no more than the costs of a mid range sound card + a bit more for the onboard mem.
It needs to come down to at least £40.
They were trying to recoupe the development cost to quickly & try the hit the early adopting enthusiasts tactics but they do not haven an established consumer following like ati/nivida to get away with that.
 
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“No, simply, they want to increase sales of their cards. thats it“
But it would hurt the sale of there cards. Developers wouldn’t use the API as it would be slow for 99% of the players so fewer games would support the card. Fewer games mean less cards sold.

Remember anyone can sign up and get the SDK to play with the API. If there was code slowing down he CPU someone would have bought it up by now now.

You suggestion is far to risky for Ageia to implant someone would find out. Developers would get upset and the public have access to the SDK. So they would find out as well.






“But how was it when in cellfactor there was levels designed to use the Physx card that only worked if you had that card...“
There are certain effects that drop a CPU down to single digit FPS. I believe you could force those levels to run on the CPU. Just by default they where off as there was zero points in playing the levels without a PPU.
 
Ageia should have licensed the tech from the start so that it would come on mid to highend gfxcards as standard & including the maybe A.I processor from another source.
 
Considering we wont be able to use the physics effects on multiplayer due to the amount of information that would have to be sent to the server and returned to all the clients what is the point of 'real-life physics' at the moment with that restriction?

In my experience the longevity of any PC game is the multiplayer element and entities built on that (mods and the like). Its all well and good that it will embellish single player gaming and the experience, but it seems it will be a hollow victory if the majority of gameplay will increasingly move to multiplayer in the near future (look at consoles and the money pumped in to their mp portals)...

As I said before when PPUs started to be purported, there is a point of minimising returns where increased accuracy in the actual physics doesnt translate into a better experience (c.f. increased levels of aa+af - potentially observable when you zoom into a single frame; but not even noticeably when actually gaming). The physics capabilities we have to date arent accurate (woefully inaccurate in truth - but lets be honest PC gaming is never going to adequately model physics - Ageia's PPU itself is far from perfect) but if it fools gamers and 99% of the time gives a grossly physics-accurate representation of the result - who cares?

I think this is where people become blinkered about the whole realism of gaming and exactly what that really means - if we really wanted it to be real-life per se, then why use games for escapism? Personally I cant see PPUs (or any realistic physics-generating unit) being useful until it works with all facets of gaming...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
ps3ud0 said:
Considering we wont be able to use the physics effects on multiplayer due to the amount of information that would have to be sent to the server and returned to all the clients what is the point of 'real-life physics' at the moment with that restriction?

In my experience the longevity of any PC game is the multiplayer element and entities built on that (mods and the like). Its all well and good that it will embellish single player gaming and the experience, but it seems it will be a hollow victory if the majority of gameplay will increasingly move to multiplayer in the near future (look at consoles and the money pumped in to their mp portals)...

As I said before when PPUs started to be purported, there is a point of minimising returns where increased accuracy in the actual physics doesnt translate into a better experience (c.f. increased levels of aa+af - potentially observable when you zoom into a single frame; but not even noticeably when actually gaming). The physics capabilities we have to date arent accurate (woefully inaccurate in truth - but lets be honest PC gaming is never going to adequately model physics - Ageia's PPU itself is far from perfect) but if it fools gamers and 99% of the time gives a grossly physics-accurate representation of the result - who cares?

I think this is where people become blinkered about the whole realism of gaming and exactly what that really means - if we really wanted it to be real-life per se, then why use games for escapism? Personally I cant see PPUs (or any realistic physics-generating unit) being useful until it works with all facets of gaming...

ps3ud0 :cool:
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Wild shot but what if the sever had PPU chips?
 
Final8y said:
Wild shot but what if the sever had PPU chips?
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Unfortunately not, the information generated by the PPU would just eat bandwidth - say if a player blew up a set of stairs with a grenade which meant you couldnt go to the upper levels, the representation of the damage and the fact it affects all players would need be sent to all players and the server to maintain the status quo - thats quite a lot of information dependent on how complicate the physics model is...

This is not even considering if other players were watching you blow up the set of stairs - imagine the information needed to be sent - it would equal the same information the PGU (physics generating unit to make it less brand orientated) needed to act upon on just the effecting players action (the player that destroyed the stairs) and then how the observant interacts with the results (thats if we even consider gameplay physics) - all this sent to the player via server (and also back to the original gamer if considering gameplay physics too)...

Not the best example but hopefully it illustrates that its the information need to be conduited between server and clients rather the actual ability to generate the physics in the first place (thats an issue on top of this)

Im sure it could be cheated and the information relayed less discretely, but then that goes back to my original argument. The only way potentially it could work is that the information sent over was just of where the player was (and their own physics - velocities, how they were standing so forth); what entities were in the room that can be modified by physics (i.e. other players, the stairs; walls etc...); what exactly happened (i.e. where/how the grenade was thrown). If this information is sent to another player their PGU should be able to calculate the same result in the background (obviously using the same API) - I dont know what hit this would cause (effectively dealing with the physics you can see and any others outside you 'realm')...

And all this while you still game - one thing Ive only just considered on gameplay physics is that its a two way street - the player that destroys the stairs might have an enemy on the stairs or in the room; considering all the debris their actions (or the fact they are just there) will effect what the debris do and so needs to be fed back to the original player before the PGU can really destroy the stairs. There comes a point where the engine/model has to decide to ignore how detailed the physics interaction is and why it just wont work in MP gaming, just way too many variables to keep track of - indeed MP physics will never be as discrete as SP physics (ever is my guess)...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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These anti/pro PPU threads are really starting to get boring now. I think every possible argument for and against the PPU has been exhausted now many times.:rolleyes:
Moreover, every one of these threads always feels unpleasant and uncivilised.
 
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Pottsey said:
“Ageia is going down a dead end. Now if NV or ATi seen something in Ageia and decided to buy em out, then it would have a future.“
Ageia currently have more games out then Havok lots of major developers are swapping to them. They are not going down a dead end. There are to many greats games that sold millions that use Ageia.
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Sorry? As far as I know the Havok engine is much more widely used than the Ageia engine surely?

Will look for some links and sources to back up my theory... too secs...
 
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